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Dedicated to the restoration and preservation of all original Dynaco tube audio equipment - Customer support for Dynaco VTA tube amp kits, all Tubes4hifi.com products and all Dynakitparts.com products


    Pre amplifier

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    Laminarman

    Posts : 110
    Join date : 2009-12-30

    Pre amplifier

    Post by Laminarman on Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:24 pm

    I think I'm gonna buy me a Christmas present, an ST70 kit and I'll email Bob with a few questions.  Before I get that far, since I'm new to this and a solid state guy, I want to start thinking of a pre-amp.  Would using a solid state pre-amp "ruin" the sound i'll get?  Would I certainly want to stay with tubes?  I am not sure if I'm going LP or CD quite yet, but I'm fortunate to live a few miles from audioclassics (Audioclassics.com) and they always have tons of used or reconditioned gear from McIntosh to turntables..etc.  I can audition items there if needed or build one from the website. I want to build the kit with the ST70 for a few reasons: I love to build things, the reviews, bang for the buck...etc.  I'm leaving my home theatre with Tannoy's and Rotel alone, this will be a second, stereo dedicated unit to listen to blues, jazz, classical, a little classic rock, while drinking fine Bordeaux or other great red wines.  In a dark room.  Alone.  To relax at the end of a long day.  Any feedback is appreciated.

    ruffian

    Posts : 43
    Join date : 2010-02-26

    Re: Pre amplifier

    Post by ruffian on Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:47 pm

    A solid state pre will not ruin your sound. It might sound different than a given tubed pre, but that isn't necessarily good or bad. Anyway since you say that you like to build things I predict than after completing the ST70 you will start thinking of buying one of Roy's preamp kits.

    Laminarman

    Posts : 110
    Join date : 2009-12-30

    Re: Pre amplifier

    Post by Laminarman on Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:54 pm

    ruffian wrote:A solid state pre will not ruin your sound.   It might sound different than a given tubed pre, but that isn't necessarily good or bad.  Anyway since you say that you like to build things I predict than after completing the ST70 you will start thinking of buying one of Roy's preamp kits.    
    Without sounding like a total idiot, who is this Roy guy??? I hope I'm not in trouble with that question Smile I see Bob's name on everything and his site is great.

    Bob Latino
    Admin

    Posts : 2411
    Join date : 2008-11-26
    Location : Massachusetts

    Re: Pre amplifier

    Post by Bob Latino on Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:58 pm

    There is no problem using a solid state preamplifier with a tube amplifier. I have done this myself many times over the years. I have many customers use SS preamps with their VTA tube amps. If you use a quality solid state preamp with a VTA ST-70 you will still get the warmth of the tube amp. If you live near Audioclassics.com you are lucky to have access to a varied choice of many of the old and great classic preamps.

    Roy is Roy Mottram. Roy owns the Tubes4hifi web site and takes care of all the Tubes4hifi PREAMP kits and I do the Tubes4hifi AMP kits. I am the moderator of the Forum here and Roy is an administrator of the Dynaco Tube Audio Forum. Kevin Devaney of Dynakitparts is also an administrator of this forum.

    Bob

    sKiZo

    Posts : 1310
    Join date : 2013-04-01
    Location : Michigan USA

    Re: Pre amplifier

    Post by sKiZo on Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:42 pm

    So ... who's this Bob guy?? jocolor 

    As far as "ruining" the sound ... I'm way ahead of everybody there. I drive the ST120 off a tape loop from a Sansui QRX quad, routed thru a Maverick TubeMagic DAC.

    Not saying you can't ruin the sound with tubes either. I have several sets and combinations of tubes for the ST120, and I also have several drivers for the TubeMagic. Just the other night, I had a magic moment when I sat back to listen and heard distortion in the right channel. dOH! I tracked it down to a bad tube in the TubeMagic DAC. Good deal too ... I just got a new tube I've been wanting to try, and it's a Major improvement over what I had.

    Short version ... whatever works. I'm real happy ... dang near ecstatic with what I'm hearing.





    Laminarman

    Posts : 110
    Join date : 2009-12-30

    Re: Pre amplifier

    Post by Laminarman on Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:16 am

    Bob Latino wrote:There is no problem using a solid state preamplifier with a tube amplifier. I have done this myself many times over the years. I have many customers use SS preamps with their VTA tube amps. If you use a quality solid state preamp with a VTA ST-70 you will still get the warmth of the tube amp. If you live near Audioclassics.com you are lucky to have access to a varied choice of many of the old and great classic preamps.

    Roy is Roy Mottram. Roy owns the Tubes4hifi web site and takes care of all the Tubes4hifi PREAMP kits and I do the Tubes4hifi AMP kits. I am the moderator of the Forum here and Roy is an administrator of the Dynaco Tube Audio Forum. Kevin Devaney of Dynakitparts is also an administrator of this forum.

    Bob
    Mucho Gracias!!!

    daveshel

    Posts : 148
    Join date : 2011-11-06
    Location : Tucson AZ USA

    Re: Pre amplifier

    Post by daveshel on Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:27 am

    As it happens, I have been evaluating some combinations of my solid state and tube equipment over the last few weeks.

    Tonight I decided my ST-70 rebuild sounds better with the PAT5 rebuild than it does with the PAS3 rebuild. The PAS3 is the only piece that I bought used so who knows what might be hiding behind that pretty 20yo custom face plate?

    My next step it to build Roy's best in a PAS chassis - I feel a Christmas Miracle Preamp coming on!

    sKiZo

    Posts : 1310
    Join date : 2013-04-01
    Location : Michigan USA

    Re: Pre amplifier

    Post by sKiZo on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:11 pm

    Speaking of pre's ... I just scored a "new" one off da bay ... Looking to simplify the system, so I went with a Carver C-4000 ...



    (Simplify you say? Carver C-4000? Sonic Holography, expansion, noise cancellation? That kind of simple??) Shocked )

    Well, it IS simpler for me, as the one box will be able to replace several I'm already using. This is also one of the earlier models that has the built in amps for rear "ambiance" channels. Worse comes to worse and I don't like it, I can always flip it, but I'm planning on liking it.

    PS ... I already do the holography thing using a C9 outboard processor, and the expansion feature is supposed to be at least as good as the dbx 3BX I'm currently using. Supposed to have a real decent and highly configurable phono stage too. Biggest advantage might be getting rid of a mile or two of signal path. tongue


    Last edited by sKiZo on Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Windup

    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2012-10-30
    Location : CT

    Re: Pre amplifier

    Post by Windup on Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:02 pm

    Can anyone share any experiences or, info on pairing up a Conrad Johnson or, an Acoustic Research tube preamp with a Latino ST70?

    I've been looking at an AR LS15, or a CJ17ls or classic? Some have said the output of these pre's have too much gain to be used with the ST70. ?!? Rolling Eyes 

    tubes4hifi
    Admin

    Posts : 1291
    Join date : 2008-11-30

    Re: Pre amplifier

    Post by tubes4hifi on Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:14 pm

    in my experience a tube preamp has more influence on the overall sound of the system than does a tube amp.
    My first foray into tubes was with a tube preamp back in the 80s, and then I wound up buying an ST70, and as you can imagine,
    that was the beginning of a hobby that is now a full time job and that lead to Bob selling amps for me and creating this forum! Very Happy

    That said, let me also respond to the last question, in my experience I've never liked Audio Research equipment, they kill the sound with their
    overly complex power supply designs. I like Conrad-Johnson equipment very much, and have had several of their various preamps over the years.

    Roy @ Tubes4HiFi.com

    Brap

    Posts : 83
    Join date : 2013-11-28
    Age : 61
    Location : Lisle, Illinois

    Pre-amp unit

    Post by Brap on Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:56 am

    I too will be adding a Pre-amp to my system for a few reasons. Am in process of building the ST-70 form Bob and also have a 2A3 PP unit I bult a few years ago that has a volume control. My goal is to have a Pre-amp to use for both amps going to a pair of Klipsch Forte's (for my PP amp) and a pair of Paradigm Studio speakers for the ST-70. Borh will be fed from a Rega TT. I have a Carver C-1 now which I will initially try. In doing some research, the new Parasound Halo 5 Pre-amp will be my purchase after the ST-70 is complete. It has excellent reviews and for around $850 it is a great unit. Stores are sold out and pre-order is required now for a February delivery. Using a Vincent PHO8 now whic is a real good bargain but no volume control.

    Spoke to the President of Parasound, Richard Schram and he is also a tube guy who syas many customers use this unit with tube gear. Use Rec-out which is a fixed signal to the amp that has a volume control and main out to the ST-70. this way all I have to do is use the Parasound volume for the ST-70 or the volume control on my PP amp for the other pair of speakers. Also will support 2.1 stereo in the event you hve small speakers and want to ad a sub. Check it out on line -- great features. Good Luck!

    deepee99

    Posts : 1333
    Join date : 2012-05-23
    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    Re: Pre amplifier

    Post by deepee99 on Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:03 am

    Skiz,
    How do you like the Maverick DAC, and what model do you have? Maybe this is the topic for another thread, but DAC is the next logical progression in my OCD. Have looked at some tube Icon and German DACs but they're beyond reach in the multi-kilobuck range.
    More on topic, I ran M-125s off a s/s Bedini preamp for several months and the sound was very good. It might be wise to start with a solid-state preamp, then you'll get the full appreciation of what a fine tube preamp such as Roy Mottram offers can do.
    My name is Dave, and I am an audiophile.

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