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    Russian 6H30

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    Davros19

    Posts : 3
    Join date : 2014-04-03

    Russian 6H30

    Post by Davros19 on Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:56 pm

    Can the dynaco circuit benefit from the so called super tube, the Russian 6H30?
    Is it compatible/ worthwhile/ cost effective?

    Has anyone attempted to use these tubes?

    sKiZo

    Posts : 1312
    Join date : 2013-04-01
    Location : Michigan USA

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by sKiZo on Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:20 pm

    From what I can find, it won't replace either a 6922 or 6DJ8 ... it can only be used in equipment that is specifically designed for it. Not sure what all you'd have to do to make it compatible with any Dynaco stuff, but it's certainly not plug and play.

    Fun fact ... all NOS were built by Reflector, a Russian mfg that built exclusively for military, so you can expect some real decent quality. SovTek bought out their old plant and equipment and fired up production - mid 90's? Anyway, no matter the brand, they're all SovTek now. Or actually New Sensor now ... and who knows next week ...

    pmarcin

    Posts : 131
    Join date : 2009-01-20
    Age : 69

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by pmarcin on Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:57 am

    I have a preamp based on the 6h30, the Super, as Edward Teller used to say. It was built from a kit from diygene. It's marvelous sounding.

    The 6h30 is not swappable with the 6922.

    The 6DJ8/6922 and 6H30 are not directly swappable, even thought hey have compatible pinouts. The 6H30 uses about 2x more heater current than the 6DJ8 (.365 mA vs .825 mA) and has different electrical characteristics. The 6DJ8 has an amplification factor of 33, while the 6H30's is about half of that.


    Last edited by pmarcin on Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:59 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added)

    sailor

    Posts : 269
    Join date : 2011-04-04

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by sailor on Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:32 pm

    I have had 2 amps with the new 6H30 tube NOS 6H30 are very expensive and a little harsh at times, The fact is the little brother 6H6 or sometimes known as 6N6 is a direct replacement for the 6H30 and is far more musical . And the really good news is you can buy NOS 6H6 direct from Russia for about $3 each. However it is a 6 volt only heater and would probably need some resistors changed to make it sound its best if replacing American\European type tubes. Below is an article on how to change circuits to use the tube. Make sure you get the 6H6 or 6N6 Russian version as there are other tubes with the same name. To use it in the dynaco you would probably need to design your own 3 tube driver stage.
    http://www.lampizator.eu/UPGRADE/upgrade%20noval%20tubes%20to%206H6P.html

    Davros19

    Posts : 3
    Join date : 2014-04-03

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by Davros19 on Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:13 pm

    Thanks for the advice! I'm not an electrical Engineer, but I have a solid scientific background and am learning a lot from all the posters.

    sailor

    Posts : 269
    Join date : 2011-04-04

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by sailor on Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:21 pm

    My father was a TV repairman back in the tube days so I have had the ability to fix electronics all of my life but understanding what is going on is different than fixing. The book that put it all together for me was Tubes and Circuits by Bruce Rozinblit. It can be purchased at Roy's site under bookstore.
    http://www.tubes4hifi.com/books.htm

    pmarcin

    Posts : 131
    Join date : 2009-01-20
    Age : 69

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by pmarcin on Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:24 pm

    The comments on Amazon reference the Rider series on electronics, which are excellent. At MIT, the novice's book is The Art of Electronics by Horowitz and Hill, which is almost comprehensive but excludes tubes and is quite pricey. Many of the other books seem to eschew simplicity.

    Also, in the public domain, the Air Force manuals on transistor theory are exemplary.

    e.g. Transistors

    download: https://archive.org/details/BasicTheoryApplicationsOfTransistors


    Last edited by pmarcin on Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:43 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : added)

    Jim McShane

    Posts : 154
    Join date : 2011-10-19
    Location : South Suburban Chicago

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by Jim McShane on Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:01 pm

    sKiZo wrote:From what I can find, it won't replace either a 6922 or 6DJ8 ... it can only be used in equipment that is specifically designed for it. Not sure what all you'd have to do to make it compatible with any Dynaco stuff, but it's certainly not plug and play.

    Fun fact ... all NOS were built by Reflector, a Russian mfg that built exclusively for military, so you can expect some real decent quality. SovTek bought out their old plant and equipment and fired up production - mid 90's? Anyway, no matter the brand, they're all SovTek now. Or actually New Sensor now ... and who knows next week ...

    A few minor corrections...All 6H30s of any vintage were built at the Xpo-Pul plant in Saratov, Russia. The plant was sold as you say - but there is no "Sovtek" company. The plant was sold to New Sensor Corporation, the New York City based company that builds/distributes/sells tubes, guitar pedals, etc. Sovtek is one of the brands used by New Sensor to market the tubes, along with Electro-Harmonix, and some of the classic names from the past such as Tung-Sol, Mullard, Genalex, and so on.

    Also, you are correct - the 6H30 tubes are not subs for 6DJ8/6922 family tubes.

    sailor

    Posts : 269
    Join date : 2011-04-04

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by sailor on Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:39 pm

    Actually you probably could substitute a 6H6 or 6H30 into a 6DJ8 cathode follower circuit without any problems unless you are short of heater current. For newbies, Here is a free tutorial and calculator on tubes. It does not have the Russian tubes. Click on all of the pages and play with the calculators to see the different parameters change what the tube does.
    http://www.ampbooks.com/home/amplifier-calculators/cathode-follower/

    Jim McShane

    Posts : 154
    Join date : 2011-10-19
    Location : South Suburban Chicago

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by Jim McShane on Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:52 pm

    sailor wrote:Actually you probably could substitute a 6H6 or 6H30 into a 6DJ8 cathode follower circuit without any problems unless you are short of heater current.

    The 6H30 draws 850 ma of heater current, the 6922 draws 300 ma. So for a pair of tubes the difference is over an amp. That's a lot of juice!

    sKiZo

    Posts : 1312
    Join date : 2013-04-01
    Location : Michigan USA

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by sKiZo on Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:46 pm

    I'm giving her all she's got, Captain!




    pmarcin

    Posts : 131
    Join date : 2009-01-20
    Age : 69

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by pmarcin on Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:56 pm

    Rider books: Basic tube electronics Need I say more?
    Better: All


    Last edited by pmarcin on Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added)

    sailor

    Posts : 269
    Join date : 2011-04-04

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by sailor on Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:09 am

    Yep, you got to have some extra heater current to run them Russian tubes. Even the 6N6/6H6 is 750ma. I still don't like the sound of the 6H30 I think it makes the highs sound like a transistor [very hard and artificial] Where the 6N6 has a very natural and musical sound. The difference between the 2 Russian tubes is very apparent.

    pmarcin

    Posts : 131
    Join date : 2009-01-20
    Age : 69

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by pmarcin on Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:53 pm

    sailor wrote:I still don't like the sound of the 6H30 I think it makes the highs sound like a transistor [very hard and artificial] Where the 6N6 has a very natural and musical sound. The difference between the 2 Russian tubes is very apparent.

    Odd, but the sound of my 6h30 pre is very smooth, tubelike. The Diygene people claim it's one of the best. OTH, initially, they sent me an underpowered PS and I exchanged it for a larger SS one at no charge. I wish I knew the topology, but there was no schematic and the instructions were all in Mandarin.

    sailor

    Posts : 269
    Join date : 2011-04-04

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by sailor on Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:14 pm

    The 6H30 and the 6H6/6N6 are from the same family of tubes. I am sure the final sound on your amp may be smooth but it is probably more the output than the driver stage that makes it smooth. I had a similar discussion about the 2 tubes on another board. Everyone stoutly defended the 6H30 but one person finally ordered some of the 6H6 from Russia and was glad he did. He was so impressed he then tried to figure out how to replace his preamp tubes with the 6H6. One of the main reasons none of the designers want to use the 6H6 is because there is no one presently producing them. The 6H30 however is in production.

    pmarcin

    Posts : 131
    Join date : 2009-01-20
    Age : 69

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by pmarcin on Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:28 pm

    That may be it. I use the 6h30 with the Dynamutt ST70. I'll have to try it with SS. (The Aikido is smooth with SS.)

    corndog71

    Posts : 454
    Join date : 2013-03-19
    Location : It can get windy here

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by corndog71 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:42 pm

    Top end B.A.T. gear uses 6H30 and they sound excellent.

    sailor

    Posts : 269
    Join date : 2011-04-04

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by sailor on Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:38 pm

    Yea, I think he bought up all the NOS available and I think he claims the old 6h30p-DR are far better than the new ones and charges a big price for his NOS.

    pmarcin

    Posts : 131
    Join date : 2009-01-20
    Age : 69

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by pmarcin on Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:43 pm

    Oops, I have one NOS in there. It cost dearly. I will prep for my test anyway.

    Jim McShane

    Posts : 154
    Join date : 2011-10-19
    Location : South Suburban Chicago

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by Jim McShane on Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:46 pm

    sailor wrote: I still don't like the sound of the 6H30 I think it makes the highs sound like a transistor [very hard and artificial] Where the 6N6 has a very natural and musical sound. The difference between the 2 Russian tubes is very apparent.

    Be careful that the tube isn't oscillating at frequencies above the audio band. That can give the tube a hard sound for sure, and it is something very high Gm tubes are prone to do.

    Use grid stoppers mounted as close to the socket grid pins as possible and use as good a socket as you can (Beltons are excellent).

    sailor

    Posts : 269
    Join date : 2011-04-04

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by sailor on Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:28 pm

    Hi Jim, interesting idea. Unfortunately they are mounted on a circuit board so adding the grid stopper would require cutting the circuit board trace for all 4 grids.
    This is probably not the problem in this case as I had a total of 5 6H30 and they all sound the same. I will stick with the 6H6 and change them out with the 6h30 when I sell it. Thanks for the advise.

    pmarcin

    Posts : 131
    Join date : 2009-01-20
    Age : 69

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by pmarcin on Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:01 am

    I swapped in my Van Alstine Omegastar ST-120 for the ST70. Result:

    Treble: Somewhat harsher; a little sibilance, especially in the first 20 minutes.
    Bass: much improved --SS
    Soundstage: quite 2D - SS
    Detail: slightly improved

    I was quite pleased with the sound. Before in my SS system, the ST-120 was as dry as the Mojave; now, I can listen to it.

    I recall purchasing a set of Russian Mil 6n1ps, after someone on the net praised them highly. Their treble sounds exactly as you describe, so I still suspect something hinky about the production of these Russian 6xxx tubes.

    Here is my pre-amp board: 6h30-- link screw up

    This is almost heretical. I hope I'm not declared anathema.


    Last edited by pmarcin on Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:34 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : added)

    sailor

    Posts : 269
    Join date : 2011-04-04

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by sailor on Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:35 am

    Couple of things, If you could find a 6H30 in Russia to buy it would be called a 6N30 but when it arrived it would be stamped 6H30. It is because of the differences in our way of writing. So the Russian 6N6 will have a 6H6 stamped on it. The 6H6 and 6H30 are from the same family of tubes and are interchangeable 99%. But they sound completely different. As I remember the 6N1 is similar to a 6Dj8 and is considered a good sounding tube but totally different and definitely not from the same family of tubes. The 6H30 is a 6H6 designed for special applications.
    Second, if I understand correctly what you described above was the sound of the 6H30 in your preamp. If so, you described the 6H30 to a T. Now if you pull those and install a set of 6H6 there will be just as much treble but the harshness will go away. And from 20 to 20K the instruments and cymbal crashes will sound natural and 3 d. If you like the 6H30 you will love the 6H6.

    pmarcin

    Posts : 131
    Join date : 2009-01-20
    Age : 69

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by pmarcin on Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:00 pm

    Thanks for the advice. I'll some 6h6s. My storage consists of EH. As for the Ru 6n1ps,hasta la vista, baby.

    sailor

    Posts : 269
    Join date : 2011-04-04

    Re: Russian 6H30

    Post by sailor on Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:11 pm

    Make sure they are the 6N6/6H6 from Russia. When you put them next to the 6H30 they should look the same but the 6H6 will be a little shorter. There are other tubes that are either a 6H6 or a 6N6 and not from Russia that are totally different tubes. They should look like this tube with the same writing. The site below is just for the picture and not a recommendation of the site.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N6P-ECC99-E182CC-Russian-Double-Triode-Tube-Gold-Grid-Lot-of-2-NOS-TESTED-/321220746898

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