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    Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

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    deepee99

    Posts : 1336
    Join date : 2012-05-23
    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by deepee99 on Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:56 pm

    This question was triggered by a post by Corndog in Bob Latino's new thread on high-value equipment (thanks, Bob) and Corndog's post suggested a couple of sources for room treatments.
    After a visit by the esteemed tubes4hifi's royalty, he remarked that our listening/living room was too bright for his tastes. And it is too bright: We found hardwood floors under the carpet and tore the carpeting up (it's gross what you find under the carpet and padding) so have kept the wood floor. Plus, lots of glass in the room, both in picture frames and windows, and now with the floor. It's got the traditional 12-foot ceiling, which is painted plasterboard, as are the walls.
    So I need to darken it down a bit.
    How to room treatments actually work, how many do you need, and of what dimension, what's the ideal placement, and would egg cartons work better (not that I could get that by the commander-in-chief)? Also any suggestions about where to look for inexpensive but aesthetically and unintrusive panels, treatments etc. would be appreciated.
    Thanks.
    -d-

    Bob Latino
    Admin

    Posts : 2413
    Join date : 2008-11-26
    Location : Massachusetts

    Re: Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by Bob Latino on Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:35 pm

    Hi David,

    I have seen the photos of your listening room and agree with Roy that it looks a little "hard" with maybe too much reverberation/echo ..

    I had problems in my downstairs system with the room being too bright. I got some foam panels and temporarily installed them until the echo from the back and side wall was lowered to the point where it was not a problem .. I then used contact cement to make the installation permanent ..

    For any others who may want to treat their room check the link below for the place where I got my foam online.

    Foam By Mail link ...

    As to how much to use and/or where to place the foam > Every room is different ... Read the FAQ about acoustic foam at the bottom of the page at the link above ..

    Bob

    corndog71

    Posts : 454
    Join date : 2013-03-19
    Location : It can get windy here

    Re: Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by corndog71 on Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:55 pm

    For starters, I recommend panels for the first reflections off the side walls. This is easy to find with a mirror and a helper. Have your helper hold the mirror on a side wall and you sit in your regular listening position. When you see your tweeter in the mirror mark that as your first reflection point for that side. Place a panel there and prepare to hear more clarity from your system. You can hang them on the walls or get a taller one and simply lean it against the wall. If you have bare walls then hanging more panels will help cut down on room reflections. It doesn't have to be wall to wall. Even just a couple can make a big difference.

    For instance, in this pic, I have a 24" x 48" ATS panel behind each of my open baffle speakers as well as a 24" x24" panel for the first reflection point.


    deepee99

    Posts : 1336
    Join date : 2012-05-23
    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    Re: Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by deepee99 on Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:45 pm

    Bob, not sure I could sell the Styrofoam to She Who Is In Charge, but Cordog, those panels might pass muster. I will further investigate, and thanks about the mirror tip. Makes sense. Stop that first big reflection, and the rest will follow -- sort of.

    Jeff V.

    Posts : 34
    Join date : 2014-08-02

    Re: Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by Jeff V. on Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:04 pm

    I was going to post this under the High Value Items thread, then saw your post.  The best alternative I have found for room treatment is to DIY.  Visit some of the room treatment sites & find out what insulation they are using.  Then shop for the best price.  The frames are easy to construct.  Finally go to a fabric store and find the fabric that works for you.  Make sure the fabric can breath.  I made these & non-audio friends compliment on the way they look in my home.

    -Jeff



    sKiZo

    Posts : 1311
    Join date : 2013-04-01
    Location : Michigan USA

    Re: Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by sKiZo on Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:05 am

    And I suppose tacking floor carpets to the ceilings would be totally out of the question?



    Basic rule of thumb is to deaden one of two parallel surfaces. In your case, that would be the ceiling if you're dead set on keeping the hard floors. As seen with my ceiling carpets, it wouldn't have to be the entire surface - you can git er done by deadening just the primary reflection points ...

    You'll also notice in the pic that the entire front wall is insulated fiberglass curtains - those do an admirable job of killing a killer 160hz standing wave courtesy of my over square room.

    I also added Auralex acoustic foam to deaden an arch over the primary listening area ...



    That done, I could attack the remaining acoustical fiddlybits with EQ hardware and software.

    Difference is night and day from what I started with.

    Brap

    Posts : 83
    Join date : 2013-11-28
    Age : 61
    Location : Lisle, Illinois

    Re: Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by Brap on Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:10 am

    Nice Steigman -- have one in my office. While at Axpona in Chi-town, Jeff Merkel had a great seminar about room acoustics. Check out merkelacoustics.com for more information

    sKiZo

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    Join date : 2013-04-01
    Location : Michigan USA

    Re: Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by sKiZo on Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:10 pm

    Everything you never wanted to know about room treatments ...

    http://arqen.com/downloads/acoustics/diffusers/?awt_l=FSUBI&awt_m=3.QmXFzfF7nfzB9

    Real science if that's what you want, blueprints and plans for some real interesting DIY stuff.



    Brap

    Posts : 83
    Join date : 2013-11-28
    Age : 61
    Location : Lisle, Illinois

    Re: Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by Brap on Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:15 pm

    "you are killin me Smalls". WOW -way too much brainiac stuff there. I may just hand some curtains and forget about it!

    Captain Coconut

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    Age : 64
    Location : Great White North

    Re: Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by Captain Coconut on Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:28 pm

    sKiZo wrote:That done, I could attack the remaining acoustical fiddlybits with EQ hardware and software.

    Difference is night and day from what I started with.

    Night and day are the same in the summer in the Arctic. I'm guessing you don't live there? Laughing Shocked clown

    deepee99

    Posts : 1336
    Join date : 2012-05-23
    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    Re: Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by deepee99 on Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:28 pm

    Captain Coconut wrote:
    sKiZo wrote:That done, I could attack the remaining acoustical fiddlybits with EQ hardware and software.

    Difference is night and day from what I started with.

    Night and day are the same in the summer in the Arctic. I'm guessing you don't live there? Laughing Shocked clown

    No, skIZo lives in the Antarctic, where there's electricity.

    sKiZo

    Posts : 1311
    Join date : 2013-04-01
    Location : Michigan USA

    Re: Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by sKiZo on Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:37 pm

    Tried moving there, but the ants kicked me out ...

    (I did have an Auntie Arctic ... cold hands ... brrrrrrrrrrr!)

    And ya ... the curtains are a good start. Mine are floor to ceiling, heavy fiberglass with foam insulation on the back, so they do a remarkably good job of killing the wall.

    2x4 fiberglass ceiling tiles on the side walls at the primary reflection points might be good too ... and cheap. Easy enough to build some simple wooded frames - a bit of paint or varnish, and attach with Command pull strips.

    The cluttered look is also good - one key to fixing problem acoustics is breaking up larger surfaces, and a scattering of pics and hangings can do wonders.

    PS ... speaking of arctic ... just got back from a 100 mile roll on the bike with temps in the high 40's, and was lucky enough to run into a frog strangler on the way back. Good crosswinds and dodging hail the last few miles. Time to curl up with a hot toddie (extra proof) in front of a nice toasty amp ...

    deepee99

    Posts : 1336
    Join date : 2012-05-23
    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    Re: Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by deepee99 on Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:46 pm

    sKiZo wrote:Tried moving there, but the ants kicked me out ...

    (I did have an Auntie Arctic ... cold hands ... brrrrrrrrrrr!)

    And ya ... the curtains are a good start. Mine are floor to ceiling, heavy fiberglass with foam insulation on the back, so they do a remarkably good job of killing the wall.

    2x4 fiberglass ceiling tiles on the side walls at the primary reflection points might be good too ... and cheap. Easy enough to build some simple wooded frames - a bit of paint or varnish, and attach with Command pull strips.

    The cluttered look is also good - one key to fixing problem acoustics is breaking up larger surfaces, and a scattering of pics and hangings can do wonders.

    Ouch!!! re: Auntie Arctic . . . Didn't know they had an aunt problem in aunt-Arctica.

    Think I will start with some carpet samples from the local store, see if I can fly them by the XYL, then report results back here. I just don't want to spend 2 kilobucks on fancy stuff. The Vandies have a rear-firing tweeter that can be switched off, and that's helped some (they were on when Roy was here). But wall-hanging stuff could fire off a marital dispute, which could lead to divorce and loss of system, so I gotta be careful there.

    colin86325

    Posts : 41
    Join date : 2014-04-01

    Re: Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by colin86325 on Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:16 pm

    Here's a DIY solution you might want to read:

    http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/17/174817.html

    Tube Nube

    Posts : 643
    Join date : 2008-12-06
    Age : 53
    Location : Calgary, AB

    Re: Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by Tube Nube on Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:56 pm


    " XYL" I heard him say, appropriating a term from another great and historically tube-driven hobby!

    My dear "OM," why has this not come up before in our correspondence?

    Back to room treatments, I don't know why I keep assuming "this is just a black art, and not for diy nubifiles"!

    Tnat 's what I believed about building an amp, modufying my Linn, building my speakers... And so here again with room treatment--I'm delighted to hear the DIY-er can do a meaningful job of it!

    de

    Tubey


    deepee99 wrote:
    sKiZo wrote:Tried moving there, but the ants kicked me out ...

    (I did have an Auntie Arctic ... cold hands ... brrrrrrrrrrr!)

    And ya ... the curtains are a good start. Mine are floor to ceiling, heavy fiberglass with foam insulation on the back, so they do a remarkably good job of killing the wall.

    2x4 fiberglass ceiling tiles on the side walls at the primary reflection points might be good too ... and cheap. Easy enough to build some simple wooded frames - a bit of paint or varnish, and attach with Command pull strips.

    The cluttered look is also good - one key to fixing problem acoustics is breaking up larger surfaces, and a scattering of pics and hangings can do wonders.

    Ouch!!! re: Auntie Arctic  . . . Didn't know they had an aunt problem in aunt-Arctica.

    Think I will start with some carpet samples from the local store, see if I can fly them by the XYL, then report results back here. I just don't want to spend 2 kilobucks on fancy stuff. The Vandies have a rear-firing tweeter that can be switched off, and that's helped some (they were on when Roy was here). But wall-hanging stuff could fire off a marital dispute, which could lead to divorce and loss of system, so I gotta be careful there.

    Tube Nube

    Posts : 643
    Join date : 2008-12-06
    Age : 53
    Location : Calgary, AB

    Re: Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by Tube Nube on Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:59 pm

    But wait, my memory partially fails me--It did come up! Correct me if zi'm wrong again, but you're a fan of the vibroplex, and the beloved, ubiquitous 6146!

    deepee99

    Posts : 1336
    Join date : 2012-05-23
    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    Re: Room treatment suggestions, anyone?

    Post by deepee99 on Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:34 pm

    Tube Nube wrote:But wait, my memory partially fails me--It did come up! Correct me if zi'm wrong again, but you're a fan of the vibroplex, and the beloved, ubiquitous 6146!

    That's the 6146A, Pilgrim.
    Don't touch the top cap if you're grounded. Blow your teeth right out.
    And yes, Vibroplex rules.

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