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The Dynaco Tube Audio Forum

Dedicated to the restoration and preservation of all original Dynaco tube audio equipment - Customer support for Tubes4hifi VTA tube amp and preamp kits and all Dynakitparts.com products


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    Canadian company has acquired the "Dynaco" trade name ?

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    alanhuth


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    Post by alanhuth Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:14 pm

    Here is a quote. I was not able to paste in the oscilloscope shots. He claims that this is quite a departure, and improvement on, the originals. Bob should get some samples and find out for sure. If they are markedly better, I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t be willing to sell or license them.


    Our first attempt at a custom transformer looked like what you see to the left (above). This is as good if not better than every off-the-shelf transformer we tried. Please note the vertical scales are different. The original is set to 2V per division while this one is at 5V per division. 20 kHz at the left. 40 Hz below.

    [​IMG]
    Though the top end was disappointing, the bottom end was stunning in comparison. The greatly improved power supply is a large part of it but still the transformer contributed a lot as well.

    [​IMG]
    In our second try after exhaustive work by our transformer vendor over many months including testing of the original A470 we got what you see here at 20kHz. While the rise time is not quite as fast, that was the price to pay to get the excellent bottom end. The issue is that there is no overshoot and no ringing or distortion of the wave shape that cause issues. Our listening tests confirmed that the rise time was not an issue. The lack of ringing is what makes the high end magical. Here is what we got with the new transformer.

    Besides preserving the high frequency and square wave response of the original transformer, we were able to extend the low frequency response to do justice to the dynamics and range of today’s music, recorded with the modern recording technology that is now prevalent. As far as we can tell, we feel these may well be the finest output transformers made for any tube amplifier, anywhere near this price point.

    [​IMG]

    rjpjnk likes this post

    peterh
    peterh


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    Post by peterh Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:34 pm

    Does anyone has the schematics of the final ( 4 triode) version ?
    MechEngVic
    MechEngVic


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    Post by MechEngVic Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:40 pm

    Yeah, that was the article I was looking for. I forgot the part about the new output transformer, but if you read the article, then read the series II manual, you'll find a lot of the same language, almost word for word in some spots. I bet that the original A470 with the stiffer power supply of the series II would test similar to the series III.
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    alanhuth


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    Post by alanhuth Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:40 am

    Bob, do you have any interest in getting a couple of their transformers to test?
    Bob Latino
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    Post by Bob Latino Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:44 am

    alanhuth wrote:Bob, do you have any interest in getting a couple of their transformers to test?  

    Not really .. They were probably very well made transformers. I still can't get over how they thought they could get $3000 USD for this amp ?

    Bob
    peterh
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    Post by peterh Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:58 am

    Bob Latino wrote:
    alanhuth wrote:Bob, do you have any interest in getting a couple of their transformers to test?  

    Not really .. They were probably very well made transformers. I still can't get over how they thought they could get $3000 USD for this amp ?

    Bob

    I think that they calculated as with "normal" appliances;
    Per unit cost + development + future support, and on top of that
    margins for importer / grossist and also margin for a dealer and shipping costs.

    If they can make one for the price of $750 it would in some
    environments be a customer price of $3000

    And if they ever thought of using commercial channels they cannot
    compete with it's dealer by underpricing their dealers.

    ( only a (qualified) guess of course )


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    Post by Guest Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:01 am

    Bob Latino wrote:
    alanhuth wrote:Bob, do you have any interest in getting a couple of their transformers to test?  

    Not really .. They were probably very well made transformers. I still can't get over how they thought they could get $3000 USD for this amp ?

    Bob

    Well, not to be snarky, but it is probably a symptom of a company run by engineers with few if any marketing/product management guys.

    I'm always surprised by the tendency of engineers and tech folks in general who disparage 'bean counters' and non-technical members of a business.

    To your point, any decent product management or market savvy 'bean counter' would have understood how the legacy positioning of the Dynaco brand was not going to support premium pricing.

    This brings to mind a similar (in principle only) situation I witnessed nearly 20 years ago.

    I was visiting the VW headquarters in Germany as part of my graduate studies. During our visit we were briefed by the head of engineering about a new WV model that was going to be launched in the US market named the "Phaeton". The starting price tag was like $80k and according to the guy in charge, it was a technological and comfort tour de force and even included a V12 engine option (it also shared a basic platform with Bentley I believe so he was probably not off).

    We pointed out however that the VW brand would never sell up market in the US re: the brand was built on low-cost, high valve/reliable everyday drivers, not luxury status vehicles--the brand is associated with the opposite of everything folks who shop in the luxury price segment care about and those folks would never be caught dead driving a $100k VW.

    I think they barely sold a couple of thousand of them before they stopped importing them to the NA market after just 2 years.
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    alanhuth


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    Post by alanhuth Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:34 am

    Usually, when a company or product fails, there are leftover nuggets of value that the incumbent isn’t able to capitalize on. My simple thought was that if they had truly developed a superior transformer, as they claim, they might be eager to unload their excess inventory or license the design for pennies on the dollar. To me that would at least be worth looking into.
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    alanhuth


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    Post by alanhuth Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:41 am

    They claimed that they looked around for a transformer supplier for months. Finally they found one. Chances are that a new transformer supplier (assuming not Jensen) would have an MOQ (minimum order quantity) to get going and justify the investment to design, source, and tool up a new product. Did they sell all the MOQ? Maybe their half-price sale did. Who knows? Once the supplier has received the MOQ order, they have usually recouped their investment and now they would like to make some money on volume sales. No need to pay for startup costs, just ongoing cost of goods sold. So, they are motivated to sell at a lower price. Or license. Who knows? There may be an opportunity here that seems like it should be investigated. Ten minutes on the phone with the right person would probably do the trick.


    Last edited by alanhuth on Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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    rjpjnk


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    Post by rjpjnk Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:19 pm

    I'm pretty sure the output transformers were made by in house by Radial Engineering themselves, or more specifically, in their Jensen Transformers division that they acquired. This company has a long history of producing some of the worlds finest audio transformers. Why would they outsource them if they have a resource like this?

    The reason it was (over) priced at 3000 is probably because it is made in Canada. In China it would be 999.

    https://audioxpress.com/news/Jensen-Transformers-acquired-by-Peter-Janis-and-teams-up-with-Radial-Engineering

    Some interesting history on the Jensen site.
    https://www.jensen-transformers.com/
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    rjpjnk


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    Post by rjpjnk Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:40 pm

    peterh wrote:Does anyone has the schematics of the final ( 4 triode) version ?

    I do. Radial refused to provide one, but fortunately the dealer I purchased my ST-70 Series 3 from got me one.

    I have no idea what the rules are on this. Would it be okay for me to share this online?
    peterh
    peterh


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    Post by peterh Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:41 pm

    rjpjnk wrote:
    peterh wrote:Does anyone has the schematics of the final ( 4 triode) version ?

    I do. Radial refused to provide one, but fortunately the dealer I purchased my ST-70 Series 3 from got me one.

    I have no idea what the rules are on this. Would it be okay for me to share this online?
    You could mail me a copy. Tell noone :-)
    Bob Latino
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    Post by Bob Latino Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:59 pm

    rjpjnk wrote:
    peterh wrote:Does anyone has the schematics of the final ( 4 triode) version ?

    I do. Radial refused to provide one, but fortunately the dealer I purchased my ST-70 Series 3 from got me one.

    I have no idea what the rules are on this. Would it be okay for me to share this online?

    If you have a copy of the schematic of the Dynaco ST-70 Series III, then you can post it here if you want. That amp is now "defunct" (not in production anymore) .. Below is photo of the inside wiring of this amp. I will make some comments about the internal wiring later when I have the time ..

    Bob


    Canadian company has acquired the "Dynaco" trade name ? - Page 5 ST-70-X-wiring
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    rjpjnk


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    Post by rjpjnk Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:02 am

    Okay, here you go... Sorry the resolution is not very good. I can't figure out how to post a higher quality image. The pdf file I have is much clearer. Is there a way to attach the original file here?

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    peterh
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    Post by peterh Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:23 am

    rjpjnk wrote:Okay, here you go... Sorry the resolution is not very good. I can't figure out how to post a higher quality image. The pdf file I have is much clearer. Is there a way to attach the original file here?

    Canadian company has acquired the "Dynaco" trade name ? - Page 5 50257527077_8bb9d39e3a_b

    Canadian company has acquired the "Dynaco" trade name ? - Page 5 50257527082_caf3231547_b

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