The Dynaco Tube Audio Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
The Dynaco Tube Audio Forum

Dedicated to the restoration and preservation of all original Dynaco tube audio equipment - Customer support for Tubes4hifi VTA tube amp and preamp kits and all Dynakitparts.com products


+3
sKiZo
Elrick
corporalspiffy
7 posters

    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards?

    avatar
    corporalspiffy


    Posts : 15
    Join date : 2015-04-23

    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards? Empty capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards?

    Post by corporalspiffy Mon May 18, 2015 2:52 pm

    i am watching this video and wondering about my st70.

    apparently caps used to come marked with a stripe indicating which end (outside foil end) should go to the low impedance side of the circuit but the modern orange/brown/greed dipped once dont.

    .

    is this a valid concern in the amount noise injected into the signal path on  my amp?
    avatar
    Elrick


    Posts : 71
    Join date : 2012-09-02
    Location : Bellingham WA

    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards? Empty Re: capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards?

    Post by Elrick Mon May 18, 2015 3:29 pm

    Modern caps are made differently and do not show the foil side makings. Any cap that you see in old gear that shows the stripe indicating foil side, replace immediately. I don't think Dynaco products are old enough to have those type of caps but perhaps.
    avatar
    corporalspiffy


    Posts : 15
    Join date : 2015-04-23

    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards? Empty Re: capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards?

    Post by corporalspiffy Mon May 18, 2015 3:54 pm

    this video shows that there still is a foil side on modern caps but that they just arent marked
    sKiZo
    sKiZo


    Posts : 1530
    Join date : 2013-04-01
    Location : Michigan USA

    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards? Empty Re: capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards?

    Post by sKiZo Mon May 18, 2015 5:50 pm

    More fodder for the anal retentive amongst us ...
    (come on ... you know who you are!)   ;-}

    Unlike electrolytics, the current in these caps crosses the same no matter the direction of travel, and there's no deforming issues to worry about. If there is any minimal difference in what comes out, keep in mind that capacitor tolerances tend to be quite large anyway. Most circuits will fire with no apparent degradation as long as it's within 20% of the design rating. Only real exception that may concern us audio types is tuner circuits where tolerance is much tighter.

    Most polys I see in a circuit are there to bypass any residual AC in a line level signal. I use anywhere from .1 to .22 for these applications - any voltage rating that meets or exceeds the design requirements - they all work the same as long as they don't explode.

    Still might be fun to take a peek at these ... picked them up to rebuild some crossovers, and I imagine any such issues would be more applicable with the larger values.

    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards? Pulse-x-crossover-caps
    Bob Latino
    Bob Latino
    Admin


    Posts : 3262
    Join date : 2008-11-26
    Location : Massachusetts

    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards? Empty Re: capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards?

    Post by Bob Latino Mon May 18, 2015 7:00 pm

    Unless it is an electrolytic cap, as sKiZo has mentioned, it doesn't really matter which way modern caps are oriented. I once pulled the Russian PIO main coupling caps out of a VTA ST-70 amp here and turned them around so that the printing on the cap went the other way. The audio signal from these caps goes from the inside lead to the outside lead. I had them in there with the printing on the cap going one way reading towards the four output tubes. I then reversed them and had the printing on the cap reading towards the center of the driver board. I could hear no difference in the sound of the amp with all four caps turned the other way. When you install the Russian PIO caps on the VTA driver board there is a sentence in the instructions that mentions that "it does not matter which way the caps are oriented". Below is a forum link from November of 2010 which shows what the inside of a Russian PIO cap looks like.

    Inside a Russian PIO cap

    Bob
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest


    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards? Empty Re: capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards?

    Post by Guest Mon May 18, 2015 8:22 pm

    .


    Last edited by PeterCapo on Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
    sKiZo
    sKiZo


    Posts : 1530
    Join date : 2013-04-01
    Location : Michigan USA

    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards? Empty Re: capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards?

    Post by sKiZo Mon May 18, 2015 9:59 pm

    "some claim to hear a difference in the sound quality depending on which way the outer foil is oriented"

    Probably the same dummies who think the rectifier can make an amp sound different. clown
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest


    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards? Empty Re: capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards?

    Post by Guest Mon May 18, 2015 10:13 pm

    .


    Last edited by PeterCapo on Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    wildiowa


    Posts : 237
    Join date : 2012-03-19

    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards? Empty Re: capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards?

    Post by wildiowa Tue May 19, 2015 9:08 am

    All I know is in my first refirb I had the bias caps in backwards and the thing lit up like a firecracker. I put orange drops in other positions and there was no pos/neg markings and all went well. Can't tell you the difference or what applications but the electrolytics on the bias circuit were not happy with my mistake.
    Bob Latino
    Bob Latino
    Admin


    Posts : 3262
    Join date : 2008-11-26
    Location : Massachusetts

    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards? Empty Re: capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards?

    Post by Bob Latino Tue May 19, 2015 10:48 am

    wildiowa wrote:All I know is in my first refirb I had the bias caps in backwards and the thing lit up like a firecracker. I put orange drops in other positions and there was no pos/neg markings and all went well. Can't tell you the difference or what applications but the electrolytics on the bias circuit were not happy with my mistake.

    The two 100 uF @ 100 volt bias power supply caps on the VTA amp kits are electrolytic caps. Electrolytic caps DO HAVE a positive and a negative side and MUST be installed ONE WAY ONLY. Other (film, PIO etc) caps do not have a positive and negative side and may be installed either way ..

    And yep .. If you do install them the wrong way, they usually self destruct pretty quickly ...

    Bob
    avatar
    GP49


    Posts : 792
    Join date : 2009-04-30
    Location : East of the sun and west of the moon

    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards? Empty Re: capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards?

    Post by GP49 Tue May 19, 2015 12:20 pm

    A lot of the issues with the electrolytics in the bias circuit are due to...of all things...too much experience with electronics! Nearly all unipolar power supply applications are positive-hot, negative-ground, and by instinct and habit, a tech or modifier may tend to wire in those capacitors with the negative side grounded. The bias supply in Dynacos is NEGATIVE so the capacitors must be POSITIVE-grounded.

    More people have done this than will admit it!

    Don't ask how I know.
    avatar
    GP49


    Posts : 792
    Join date : 2009-04-30
    Location : East of the sun and west of the moon

    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards? Empty Re: capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards?

    Post by GP49 Tue May 19, 2015 12:22 pm

    sKiZo wrote:More fodder for the anal retentive amongst us ...
    (come on ... you know who you are!)   ;-}

    Still might be fun to take a peek at these ... picked them up to rebuild some crossovers, and I imagine any such issues would be more applicable with the larger values.

    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards? Pulse-x-crossover-caps

    That BATTERY in the lower right corner probably won't work very well...!!! affraid
    deepee99
    deepee99


    Posts : 2244
    Join date : 2012-05-23
    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards? Empty Re: capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards?

    Post by deepee99 Wed May 20, 2015 7:02 pm

    Don't encourage him.

    Sponsored content


    capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards? Empty Re: capacitors (polyprop) installed backwards?

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:26 am