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    Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

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    Stevedel

    Posts : 19
    Join date : 2012-02-15

    Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by Stevedel on Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:27 pm

    Put in a minimum E-bay bid on an FM-5 tuner and won. I know that it's solid-state, but I have three FM-3s in the closet. I have been sitting on an old PAS-3 (Deoxit spray didn't work well, this time I used the little bottle and got much better penetration, without all the mess.)

    The PAS-3 spent the afternoon on the Variac, being brought back to life, slowly. Hooked it up to My "Little Wonder" ST-35 and a pair of Rectilinear IIIs and spent the evening listening to the local NPR classical station. The big Rectilinears and the little ST-35 really do like each other.

    Now, to bring an FM-3 back to life, (My first kit build was an FM-3 but that was 50 years ago.) and think about a PAS-3 upgrade path.

    The only ALL tube setup I can remember having was a Mac 1400 receiver. That was long time ago, in a place far away.

    PeterCapo

    Posts : 380
    Join date : 2008-12-05

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by PeterCapo on Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:44 pm

    A number of choices for the PAS.  Kind of depends how much complication you feel like dealing with and what kind of sound quality you like.  There are kits that change it to a completely different circuit design and conveniently enough.  If you happen to have a sonic sweet tooth, try the original Dynaco PAS circuit, refreshed.  I rebuilt a PAS to the original circuit design not long ago and it has a very sweet sound, perhaps the sweetest I've ever heard.

    Van Alstine used to publish an article about the FM3 and he used to work on the solid state Dynaco tuners, too.  Not sure if the following represents everything he wrote about the FM3, but it's a start: http://avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=185&Itemid=181

    daveshel

    Posts : 147
    Join date : 2011-11-06
    Location : Tucson AZ USA

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by daveshel on Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:48 pm

    I love my ST-35. I restored it 2 years ago - new circuit boards of the original design along with Dave Gillespie's EFB and new tubes. Sounds sweeter than my stock ST-70. I'm on the fence about how to refurbish the ST-70 though - whether to use the original circuit or the VTA enhancement.

    Stevedel

    Posts : 19
    Join date : 2012-02-15

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by Stevedel on Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:58 pm

    Thanks for the input, Peter and Dave. I've been researching Pas-3 and FM-3 upgrades for some time now and am always looking for suggestions. I don't want to spoil the classic champagne look of the pair.

    I'm about ready to order a second Mk-IV. Then, I think that I will order a pair of Mk-III chassis and start collecting parts for those. Of course, that will require a second PAS-3.

    I also love my little ST-35 and will always have a place for it in the house somewhere. I am also building one of those DIY Triode/Parks rev. D amps with Edcor transformers.

    "If it's worth doing, It's worth doing to excess."

    If I could add... I just hooked up a Technics SL1500 w/ Empire 2000Z cartridge. If a 45 year old pre and power amp design can sound this good, how would a modernized PAS-3 and a pair of Mk-IIIs sound?

    Stevedel

    Posts : 19
    Join date : 2012-02-15

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by Stevedel on Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:14 pm

    Well, I ordered an Aikido line amp board and phono board from Tube Nirvana and a black faceplate and knobs from Dynakitparts. I guess if I want to keep an original PAS-3 I'll have to find another.

    Can anyone tell me about the output impedance of the Aikido board? What would be the minimum impedance of a power amp that an Aikido equipped PAS-3 could handle? It is advertised as low impedance out, but just how low, can it go? My Mackie mixer input impedance is 10K. Can the tape outs deal with this?

    I would appreciate anyone with Aikido board experience chiming in.

    It will, mostly, be powering various Dynaco tube amps but I will be using it for other things as well.

    Stevedel

    Posts : 19
    Join date : 2012-02-15

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by Stevedel on Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:30 am

    Some of you are following this thread, so I'll keep going.

    I'm thinking that it's silly to find another PAS-3 when I have an unmolested, very nice stock one. Since I am replacing pretty much everything, why not just order a Dynakitparts PAS-3 chassis and 6 pole selector switch. Kevin has them on sale, at present.

    With that in process, I need to find a really nice volume and balance control. Any suggestions?

    Later.

    peterh

    Posts : 641
    Join date : 2012-12-25
    Location : gothenburg, sweden

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by peterh on Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:12 am

    Stevedel wrote:Some of you are following this thread, so I'll keep going.

    I'm thinking that it's silly to find another PAS-3 when I have an unmolested, very nice stock one. Since I am replacing pretty much everything, why not just order a Dynakitparts PAS-3 chassis and 6 pole selector switch. Kevin has them on sale, at present.

    With that in process, I need to find a really nice volume and balance control. Any suggestions?

    Later.
    It sounds like a good idea to mount you akikido etc boards in a new chassie and keep
    the PAS-3 unmolested.

    What could be done with the pas-3 is to replace the cap and 24V supply, one example :
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dynaco-PAS3-Z-Mod-Power-Supply-Upgrade-/121630541694?hash=item1c51bec77e:g:TTUAAOSwPgxVOCaL

    Another : http://triodeelectronics.com/sdslacabofor1.html
    There exists some more variants, but the one i think about uses the original transformer
    and, if wanted, the 12x4.
    ( there is no need for a stabilized PSU as this is a class-A device)
    Installing one of these boards will make the pas fit for another number of years.

    GreggW

    Posts : 55
    Join date : 2015-07-15

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by GreggW on Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:14 am

    I'm really pleased with my PAS 3 with the TCLA with tone controls. It has the V18 power supply from Tube Nirvana and the ALPS volume and balance controls. Perhaps someone else will chime in, but I think you need something more stout than the stock transformer to run six tubes, assuming you will have a phono preamp with two tubes. The new V19 power supply from Tube Nirvana is solid state and I'd bet the quality is superb. My preamp is also extremely quiet....

    Stevedel

    Posts : 19
    Join date : 2012-02-15

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by Stevedel on Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:12 am

    Thanks for your suggestions, PeterH. Triode has very nice stuff.

    You are absolutely correct, GreggW, thank you. Once I decided on preserving my stock PAS-3, increasing the cost of the project considerably, this months toy budget was pretty much gone.

    I have decided on a Tube Nirvana Regulated Power Supply, V18 with 12X4 rectifier tube, ALPS balance and tone controls, and input/output board. I have an old, smoke invaded FM-3 that I will borrow the perforated top cover from, which will require a complete stripping and repaint. I E-bayed this FM-3 cheep and got a good pair of Telefunken 12AX7s. (Don't you guys get any ideas, all those under $40 E-bay FM-3s are mine!) 

    Then comes the selection of tubes and any other misc. parts. My purchase of a second Dynakitparts MK-IV may have to wait until Christmas. I don't care if it's politically correct or not, I'm buying a well deserved gift for myself.

    I'll have plenty of time as I still need to modify my Triode ST35 chassis for the Edcor transformers. (I have the Tubesforhifi rev. D board and all the other components, including Mundorf Silver/Gold in Oil .22mfd coupling caps.) Stainless steel is very hard to grind and the wire lead spacing of the much larger Edcors will require time and many aluminum oxide Dremel stones. Can anyone offer a better suggestion? A new Makita VS electric die grinder is out of the question and my Ingersol air die grinder wouldn't exactly be endearing to the "Silence is Golden" half of the household.

    Then, there is the FM-3 to consider. I contacted the new FM3ZONE website and was informed that the black FM-3 faceplate was available but the "all in one" PCB was going under a revision and I would have to wait for that.

    Hey! I have an old Sherwood S3000III white faced tuner that plays very well, is in very good condition and needs very minor upgrades. But then it wouldn't be an all Dynaco system, would it?

    Looks like this has become an extended winter project.

    Just to add, the perforated FM-3 tube cover looks to be a perfect fit, on the PAS-3, once the back part of it is modified and new screw holes drilled.


    Last edited by Stevedel on Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Just to add.)

    Stevedel

    Posts : 19
    Join date : 2012-02-15

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by Stevedel on Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:22 am

    Did some tube shopping tonight. Found some Baldwin marked 12AU7s and a pair of NOS in boxes RCA 12AY7s. Some of the E-bay guys are really proud of their 12AY7s, if you know what I mean.

    PAS-3 chassis should be here tomorrow. So, I need to think about posting images to this website.

    Can anyone recommend a Flicker type photo sharing service? Something that would not overtax my limited photo and internet skills?

    Stevedel

    Posts : 19
    Join date : 2012-02-15

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by Stevedel on Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:00 am

    Concerning my smoke invaded FM-3. Looks like someone poured molasses over it. I'm sure that I can clean the tuning capacitor with a good dose of contact cleaner. Can I do the same with the IF transformers? Is there something inside that would be disturbed with a good soaking of contact cleaner? Is there some alternative?

    I'm going to try to resurrect this one using an FM3zone PCB and black faceplate. I have two other FM-3s but I don't wish to dissect those without good reason.

    Thanks gang, as long as you keep reading, I'll keep posting. Something good will come out of this, I'm sure.

    GP49

    Posts : 717
    Join date : 2009-04-30
    Location : East of the sun and west of the moon

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by GP49 on Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:38 pm

    The IF transformers could be damaged by solvent. Enameled wire and plastic cores and/ or frames could be vulnerable. It depends on what you're using.

    Stevedel

    Posts : 19
    Join date : 2012-02-15

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by Stevedel on Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:29 pm

    CRC QD electronic cleaner. Supposed to be safe for plastics.

    I will wait and check the individual components before attempting to destroy any.

    Thank you, GP49.

    Can an IF transformer be tested out of circuit?

    GP49

    Posts : 717
    Join date : 2009-04-30
    Location : East of the sun and west of the moon

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by GP49 on Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:59 pm

    Only continuity can be tested. Can't pick up a shorted coil that way.

    tubes4hifi
    Admin

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    Join date : 2008-11-30

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by tubes4hifi on Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:32 pm

    output impedance of the AIKIDO is under 1K ohm, and I've got lots of ALPS RK27 volume and balance controls available.

    Stevedel

    Posts : 19
    Join date : 2012-02-15

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by Stevedel on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:04 pm

    Thanks so much for the info, tubes4hifi. So, my new pre-amp shouldn't have any problem driving tape, digital recording devices or an electronic crossover.

    I hope that your new business arrangements work well for all concerned. You guys do a great service for the hi-fi industry and those of us that just plain like to fool around with equipment.

    You'll be hearing from me.

    Stevedel

    Posts : 19
    Join date : 2012-02-15

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by Stevedel on Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:18 pm

    This is not really a progress report, well, somewhat, maybe. I finished a second Mk IV power amp over the weekend. The pair is replacing my little ST35 in the living room setup. (Thorens TD160AB table with Empire 999VE/X cartridge, Mcintosh MR 7083 tuner, C-24 preamp and Rectilinear III speakers. The ST35 did an admirable job with the rather inefficient Rectilinears.

    I can report an increase in the quality of the lower end reproduction and an improvement in the overall openness  of the sound. Now, I will play CDs, listen to the local jazz and classical stations and wait for the Mundorf  Silver in Oil coupling caps to blossom. That should take 50-100 hours. Then we will break out the vinyl. I'll report later.

    As for the progress of the all tube Dynaco system, I'm just waiting on the PAS3 power supply and input-output jack board. I went with the Aikido main board and PH10 phono pre-amp board. Then, I'll start on the FM3 rebuild.

    And a special thanks to Kevin at Dynakitparts.com for his excellent service and a very quick E-mail response. Even on a weekend.

    Tube Nube

    Posts : 603
    Join date : 2008-12-06
    Age : 53
    Location : Calgary, AB

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by Tube Nube on Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:45 pm

    Hi Steve,

    Kevin is an excellent resource ans a friend to this voard and colleague to Roy and Bob.

    I'm following your thread progress with interest. Let me offer a belated welcome to the forum. You are truly among friends here!

    Stevedel

    Posts : 19
    Join date : 2012-02-15

    Re: Headed toward an all tube Dynaco setup.

    Post by Stevedel on Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:41 pm

    The all Dynaco tube system is a reality.

    I was using my PAS-3 and ST-35 for experimenting with other tuners and, just for fun, I put a factory assembled FM-3 on the variac. When I reached 90 volts, I noticed the tuning eye pulsating. I turned on the amps, tuned around the dial and there was music. Sounds really good, even at 90 volts AC. It had worked before but had stopped for some unknown reason. I must have swapped out some tubes and had forgotten what I did.

    Anyway, the trio are united and singing sweetly through a pair of Rectilinear Mini IIIs. The plucked double bass, over the local college Jazz station, sounds especially good.

    I'll still continue my build of "Custom" Dynaco components. I'll, at least, have a stock Dyna setup to compare them with.

    Makes me want to build an ST-70, just for the Mini IIIs. I love those little speakers!

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