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    The tapeworm in all of us

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    deepee99

    Posts : 1337
    Join date : 2012-05-23
    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by deepee99 on Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:55 pm

    Let's face it: we are defective units. Normal humanoids listen to earbuds We insane remnants of the colony insist on Big Sound, which drives one eventually to insanity or to tubes.
    Lurking inside of every tube-a-holic lays a desire for the ultimate in analogue, else the tapeworm would not lurk there.
    Yes, tape. Hissy, compensated, over-saturated, compromised beyond belief -- or not. Naiamichis are great for the teensy-weensie cassette tapes but I wouldn't want to leave one to my grandkids, and I've had 'em all, Dragons, RX 505s, yada yada.
    No, I want those big 10-inch reels and the tape to go with them. With the new ATR and Pyral tape they are absolutely silent and will absorb all the dynamics you can slam into them. BASF also makes quality tape. No hiss. Just the finest sound, and the vinyl takes a breather. No need to "stuff" the VU meters, either. Keep 'er at zero dB, let the occasional boom from the orchestra or The Band hit +3 but on a good deck, don't slam the meters like we did when we was kids.
    My pleasure is a Technics RS-1506, which is the four-track version of the 1500. Holger has a stash of Revox A-77s he is restoring between orders. I like the Technics better for aesthetic reasons, but it's a bitch to thread. To each his own.
    Now, to the reason for this post. Who else among us has the tapeworm, and what are his/her experiences and advice?
    Going digital to analogue, which is what one must do, and to preserve the old vinyl, the aged HQ tape deck is my preference. I welcome a food fight on this matter.



    peterh

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    Location : gothenburg, sweden

    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by peterh on Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:01 pm

    Go for a revox G-36, it's much better then A-77 ( and G-36 is full of tubes too )
    But junk those basf tapes, get 3M(206??) and trim the tapedrive for that tape.
    BASF tapes use to dust off the magnetic stuff to everywhere where you don't want it, 3m knows
    ( or did know) how to make it stick on the tape.
    As tape drives , i gave mine away ( 1 G-36 and one brAun TG-502) some years ago when i got my mac-mini loaded with audacity and finally got it interfaced with my PAS ( read cathode follower)


    Last edited by peterh on Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:05 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by Guest on Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:58 pm

    well, you may as well add to the Revox A77's, which now stand at 3 (one yet to be delivered),one B77 in the midst of restoration, and one PR99, which is currently in Oz with me, but already packed up in its very own 'Business Class' suitcase, ready to head back to the US with me. Oh and the Pioneer RT1020H!
    And THE best thing, all, apart from the Pioneer, cost 0$! Like I always said, its not what you know, but WHO you know!
    Why so many?...why not.....I really do like the Studer/Revox products, great machines, well designed, that proven Swiss/German engineering, still sound awesome even after 30,40,50+ years. They all need some tlc and upgrades, but thats not too difficult to do. And parts, especially out of Europe, are still plentiful to get.
    I am slowly becoming a Revox 'expert', they really re a pleasure to work on and to listen to.
    I am of course still gunning for a G36, all tube, one for the first Willy Studer r2r's.
    Most, if not all of the A77's will be up for sale, eventually, and as to the B77 and PR99....I might just keep them for a while! Smile....but will of course consider offers, once they are ready to go.

    deepee99

    Posts : 1337
    Join date : 2012-05-23
    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by deepee99 on Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:20 pm

    MontanaWay wrote:well, you may as well add to the Revox A77's, which now stand at 3 (one yet to be delivered),one B77 in the midst of restoration, and one PR99, which is currently in Oz with me, but already packed up in its very own 'Business Class' suitcase, ready to head back to the US with me. Oh and the Pioneer RT1020H!
    And THE best thing, all, apart from the Pioneer, cost 0$! Like I always said, its not what you know, but WHO you know!
    Why so many?...why not.....I really do like the Studer/Revox products, great machines, well designed, that proven Swiss/German engineering, still sound awesome even after 30,40,50+ years. They all need some tlc and upgrades, but thats not too difficult to do. And parts, especially out of Europe, are still plentiful to get.
    I am slowly becoming a Revox 'expert', they really re a pleasure to work on and to listen to.
    I am of course still gunning for a G36, all tube, one for the first Willy Studer r2r's.
    Most, if not all of the A77's will be up for sale, eventually, and as to the B77 and PR99....I might just keep them for a while! Smile....but will of course consider offers, once they are ready to go.
    I'll stand my Technics over those Kraut machines any old day. Of course it takes all of a morning threading an RS-1500.

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    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by Guest on Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:21 pm

    deepee99 wrote:
    MontanaWay wrote:well, you may as well add to the Revox A77's, which now stand at 3 (one yet to be delivered),one B77 in the midst of restoration, and one PR99, which is currently in Oz with me, but already packed up in its very own 'Business Class' suitcase, ready to head back to the US with me. Oh and the Pioneer RT1020H!
    And THE best thing, all, apart from the Pioneer, cost 0$! Like I always said, its not what you know, but WHO you know!
    Why so many?...why not.....I really do like the Studer/Revox products, great machines, well designed, that proven Swiss/German engineering, still sound awesome even after 30,40,50+ years. They all need some tlc and upgrades, but thats not too difficult to do. And parts, especially out of Europe, are still plentiful to get.
    I am slowly becoming a Revox 'expert', they really re a pleasure to work on and to listen to.
    I am of course still gunning for a G36, all tube, one for the first Willy Studer r2r's.
    Most, if not all of the A77's will be up for sale, eventually, and as to the B77 and PR99....I might just keep them for a while! Smile....but will of course consider offers, once they are ready to go.
    I'll stand my Technics over those Kraut machines any old day. Of course it takes all of a morning threading an RS-1500.

    HA!!!!...blah di bah di blah!
    btw...never call a Swiss a Kraut!!.......not unless you can run VERY fast!
    Also, it was Willy Studer who perfected the modern tape drive system, independent motors, tape tension control and the like. The Japs took it one step further, and it cannot be denied that they were the r2r champions in the 60's and 70's!

    Tom

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    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by Tom on Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:51 pm

    Well yes of course!
    I record at home digitally like everybody else in the world.
    But recently got to play with a guy who's backroom recording studio
    boasts a Tascam 32, 1/2 track running at 15 ips.
    Super fun and way more "organic" than using the laptop.
    Now I want one too...
    Razz

    Doctor Hugocat

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    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by Doctor Hugocat on Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:19 pm

    Oh yes........I'm giving my MCI 30ips 2-track to a friend (I don't have space for it any more) but still have my Otari MX-50. Also a Nak cassette deck. Last night I almost threw away a Tascam 122 restoration project I bought for $25 a year ago......thinking that I'll never get round to it, and I'm moving house. I even got as far as removing the knobs for other projects. Then of course I powered it up and couldn't throw it away. Damn.

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    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by Guest on Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:23 pm

    like good tube gear...it really is hard to beat a correctly calibrated r2r. There are now two, that I know of, r2r tape manufacturers in the US.
    r2r has made a big comeback, just like tubes and vinyl!


    Last edited by MontanaWay on Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:56 am; edited 2 times in total

    daveshel

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    Location : Tucson AZ USA

    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by daveshel on Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:25 pm

    I bought a Sony TC-366 when I was about 14, but it hasn't worked very well for the past several decades. I spent like $138 at a local shop to fix it, but it wasn't much improved in the end. It plays but it drags.

    A year or two I picked up a TC-350 for like a third of that service fee, and it works pretty good, although it is an older with no 'special' tape select (I'm not sure what that even means, but I was thinking it was like the high bias capabilities of cassette decks). I was thinking of using it with my DBX 122, but then I realized that my tube preamp lacks the external processing loop and its tape loop is considered primitive, so I never really played with it. No so for my AVA-modofied PAT-5 on my solid state rig, but the turntable on that rig is the rusty nail to play the wasted records.

    I have a ton of music from the 80s on cassette but not so much on reels. But your post has possibly rekindled my interest...although, as you can see, it's complicated.

    deepee99

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    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by deepee99 on Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:33 pm

    MontanaWay wrote:like good tube gear...it really is hard to beat a correctly calibrated r2r. There are now two, that I know of, r2r tape manufacturers in the US.
    r2r has made a big comeback, just like tubes and vinyl!

    I know of only one: ATR. Who's the other?
    Here's the best dope I can find on currently-made R2R tape: http://www.recordingdataservice.com/Analog-FAQs-s/1845.htm


    Last edited by deepee99 on Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Adtional tape info)

    tubes4hifi
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    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by tubes4hifi on Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:59 pm

    well, now all of you guys need my TapeHead preamp, not shown on my webpage, but I've sold 4 of them in the past 6 months.
    actually, here's a link . . . . http://tubes4hifi.com/TAPEHEAD.htm

    deepee99

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    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by deepee99 on Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:12 pm

    tubes4hifi wrote:well, now all of you guys need my TapeHead preamp, not shown on my webpage, but I've sold 4 of them in the past 6 months.
    actually, here's a link . . . .    http://tubes4hifi.com/TAPEHEAD.htm

    The old Revox and Technics preamps were actually quite good, but this would sure make a Teac or Sony sing.

    Tube Nube

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    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by Tube Nube on Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:23 pm

    I've been thnking of removing the iPod from the system in my waiting room in favour of a r2r tape deck. The question, though, is how many hours can be put on a single reel? If it's limited to an album or two . . . I don't wanna be changing tapes all the time when I'm seeing customers.

    Home is a different matter, and I've been thinking of going reel to reel to really there too.

    peterh

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    Location : gothenburg, sweden

    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by peterh on Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:46 pm

    Some of the more decent r2r had electrical manouvering.
    A dealer in gothernburg had a G36 in display in a shop window, connected to rewind the tape and
    rewind it , thus creating a loop. It was on line 24h with annual head and lead changes ( tapes were
    replaced more often)

    Ågrens Hifi on "södra vägen" was the shop.

    Braun tg1000 and tg502 also was relay controlled and could do the same things, the
    braun had a remote that switched the relays ( 24V DC by the way) , and today's arduino could
    be convinced to control it today.

    deepee99

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    Join date : 2012-05-23
    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by deepee99 on Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:36 pm

    Tube Nube wrote:I've been thnking of removing the iPod from the system in my waiting room in favour of a r2r tape deck.  The question, though, is  how many hours can be put on a single reel? If it's limited to an album or two . . . I don't wanna be changing tapes all the time when I'm seeing customers.

    Home is a different matter, and I've been thinking of going reel to reel to really there too.

    Dave, play time depends on the reel diameter, tape thickness and the speed you're running. With a 10-inch reel running at 3-3/4, you can get at least two and a half record albums on per side; ATR has come up with a thinner, 3600-foot reel tape which I have not tried; the normal 10-inch length for mastering tape is 2500 feet so you could likely squeeze three albums and some change onto a single side of their new MDS-36 reels. I swear by ATR tape, at least their normal mastering tape, no need for Dolby or dBx BS. Just plug and play, and when recording keep the VUs in the 0 dB range, no need to slam this stuff. I got suspicious of tape hiss on my machine and turns out it was coming from the old Deutsche Gramophone LP I was recording.
    What I like about ATR is it's made in the USA and when you call them up you get a real person. One bit of advice: don't buy old Ampex or Maxell tape. Go with newly made. Better in all respects and hasn't suffered the ravages of aulde age.
    If 3 hours of music per side is too much, I suggest you rearrange your waiting room Smile

    Tube Nube

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    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by Tube Nube on Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:57 pm

    No, 3 hours would be a good amount of time. I'd be changing tapes only once, most twice daily.

    And clients would be smacked in the face with my retro-chic tastes in gear and music.

    Next, I'll replace the Naim integrated amp with something tubular!

    Hmmm, I sense a tax deductible excuse for some new gear!

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    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by Guest on Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:25 pm

    keep in mind of course, the slower the speed, the 'less quality' is the recording.
    Now, to the average user listener, even 3.75 is fine, nothing wrong with that speed, but for those of us who are more fussy, 7.5 is perfect!
    Right now, all my recordings are at 7.5, and they sound awesome! I use ATR 3600' as well as 2500', and my ears cannot hear a difference between the thinner 3600' and 2500' tape. Of course, one can go up to 15...but alas, its gonna chew up that tape in no time!
    Another thing to keep in mind, ½ track or ¼ track. With a ¼ track r2r, you can record both sides of a tape, once the end is reached, flip it over and record the other side, so you'll get double the time.
    Again, just like speed, ½ track will give you better quality sound, as more tape surface is used as compared to ¼ track. I have both types, but am only using the ¼ track for now.


    Last edited by MontanaWay on Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : stupid typing mistakes.....)

    deepee99

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    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by deepee99 on Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:03 am

    MontanaWay wrote:keep in mind of course, the slower the speed, the 'less quality' is the recording.
    Now, to the average user listener, even 3.75 is fine, nothing wrong with that speed, but for those of us who are more fussy, 7.5 is perfect!
    Right now, all my recordings are at 7.5, and they sound awesome! I use ATR 3600' as well as 2500', and my ears cannot hear a difference between the thinner 3600' and 2500' tape. Of course, one can go up to 15...but alas, its gonna chew up that tape in no time!
    Another thing to keep in mind, ½ track or ¼ track. With a ¼ track r2r, you can record both sides of a tape, once the end is reached, flip it over and record the other side, so you'll get double the time.
    Again, just like speed, ½ track will give you better quality sound, as more tape surface is used as compared to ¼ track. I have both types, but am only using the ¼ track for now.
    Holger, we're talking about a doctor's waiting room. 3-3/4 ips at 4-track would be more than plenty. I have found the ATR tape, on quarter-track at 3-3/4 to be more than adequate and better-sounding than a tweaked out Nak. Absolutely no hiss and plenty of headroom if you don't "stuff" it. Back in the aulde days it was fashionable to slam the meters at +3 dB thereby reducing hiss relative to the sound of the recording, but really not necessary now with better heads and tape.
    Were I making a live recording I'd certainly go to higher speed and half-track, but that tape gets expensive at $70 a reel, so for archiving vinyl 4-track at 3-3/4 (or if you're truly fussy, 7-1/2) is plenty. Only other consideration Tube Nube might make is an auto-reverse (perpetual motion) machine which would give you 6 hours, but they are several thousand dollars more in price for a good one. And it's fun to flip the reels once in awhile, just to check up on one's manual dexterity.

    Tube Nube

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    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by Tube Nube on Sat Apr 23, 2016 2:25 pm

    Hey Dave,

    That auto reverse sounds good, though expensive . . . Unless there are "legacy" decks out there that are affordable?

    Now when it comes to setting up these things, do you run a line from from the pre amp out put?

    peterh

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    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by peterh on Sat Apr 23, 2016 5:29 pm

    Tube Nube wrote:Hey Dave,

    That auto reverse sounds good, though expensive . . . Unless there are "legacy" decks out there that are affordable?

    Now when it comes to setting up these things, do you run a line from from the pre amp out put?
    Auto-reverse can be done with any Revox G36 or braun TG5xx or tg1000 with some external
    logic ( a few relays will do)
    The key is that the tape has a metallic lead-in lead-out that causes contact with a sensor,
    this can trigger "rewind", and when detected the "lead-in" it will apply "play" again.

    The only thing that may be needed is longer lead-in tapes then 3m supplied as the drive will
    not be able to break at rewind speed until the tape has run out.

    As a side note, a pc with winamp or simular might be a better (read more reliable ) solution :-) but
    that is off-topic.

    deepee99

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    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by deepee99 on Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:43 am

    Tube Nube wrote:Hey Dave,

    That auto reverse sounds good, though expensive . . . Unless there are "legacy" decks out there that are affordable?

    Now when it comes to setting up these things, do you run a line from from the pre amp out put?

    If your preamp has a tape- or processor loop, there's where you plug things in. If you go directly from the pre-amp out to the tape deck, then the signal that is going to the tape gets buggered up by tone-controls and volume settings and probably some impedance issues. I suspect most of the newer preamps don't even have a tape loop but most of 'em have a processor loop. Just use that. Again, don't use the output to the amps; you just want a straight unadulterated signal.
    An alternative to the >$5,000 professionally rehabbed auto-reverse Technics RS-1700, is the Pioneer RT-707 auto-reverse, which Jeff Jacobs at J-Corder rehabs, tweaks and sells in pristine condition for about $1,600.
    See: http://www.j-corder.com/Pioneer_RT-707.html
    Both Pioneer and Technics were mfg'd by Matsushita, and are bullet-proof. The RT-707 uses the smaller 7-inch reels as opposed to the RS-1500 series so you get half the recording time, but that may be sufficient for your requirements in the waiting room.
    I cannot speak highly enough of Jeff's work on my Technics and I am sure he applies the same diligence to the Pioneers.
    You can of course go on Feebay or Audiogoner or Canuck AM and pick either up for cheaper but ya never know what you're getting in to, and shipping an 80-lb machine to a repair shop half-way across the country is a consideration. I like dealing with somebody who knows what he's doing and sends you an elegant restoration. Jeff worked on these machines for 30 years and has quite the encyclopaedic knowledge on them.
    Tape is to digital what vinyl is to CDs. There is far more information on a tape than any digital medium.

    Tube Nube

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    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by Tube Nube on Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:39 pm

    Good recommendations, Dave. Thanks.

    My preamp is the sp14 -- I thought there was no tape out jack, but I haven't looked back there for a long time.

    I'll check out Jeff's site. That sounds like the way to go.

    deepee99

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    Join date : 2012-05-23
    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by deepee99 on Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:14 pm

    Tube Nube wrote:Good recommendations, Dave. Thanks.

    My preamp is the sp14 -- I thought there was no tape out jack, but I haven't looked back there for a long time.

    I'll check out Jeff's site. That sounds like the way to go.
    Dave, if you've got a tape/source switch on the LH side of the front panel of your SP-14, you're live. Just look for the tape-out and tape-in jacks on the back. I think Roy, Troy, Don, Holger et. al all wire them that way. You don't need a "tape" option on the selector knob, just use the toggle switch for record and playback. If not, just have 'em punch a hole in the front panel and put the double-throw double-pole switch in; it's not rocket science to wire them -- at least for those guys. I don't mess with blonde frog-hair wiring anymore, so best have them do it while their eyesight is still good.
    Rediscovering tape has been an absolute pleasure for me, and with several makers of new and vastly improved Type 1 tape in business, it may be the new renaissance (is that redundant?) in analogue. Sounds to me like the Pioneer would make good sense in the waiting room, then cash in some bearer bonds to buy a rehabbed Technics for home hi-fi.






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    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by Guest on Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:00 pm

    deepee99 wrote:
    Tube Nube wrote:Good recommendations, Dave. Thanks.

    My preamp is the sp14 -- I thought there was no tape out jack, but I haven't looked back there for a long time.

    I'll check out Jeff's site. That sounds like the way to go.
    Dave, if you've got a tape/source switch on the LH side of the front panel of your SP-14, you're live. Just look for the tape-out and tape-in jacks on the back. I think Roy, Troy, Don, Holger et. al  all wire them that way. You don't need a "tape" option on the selector knob, just use the toggle switch for record and playback. If not, just have 'em punch a hole in the front panel and put the double-throw double-pole switch in; it's not rocket science to wire them -- at least for those guys. I don't mess with blonde frog-hair wiring anymore, so best have them do it while their eyesight is still good.
    Rediscovering tape has been an absolute pleasure for me, and with several makers of new and vastly improved Type 1 tape in business, it may be the new renaissance (is that redundant?) in analogue. Sounds to me like the Pioneer would make good sense in the waiting room, then cash in some bearer bonds to buy a rehabbed Technics for home hi-fi.






    and forget who got you back into r2r...... Wink

    deepee99

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    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    Re: The tapeworm in all of us

    Post by deepee99 on Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:28 pm

    MontanaWay wrote:
    deepee99 wrote:
    Tube Nube wrote:Good recommendations, Dave. Thanks.

    My preamp is the sp14 -- I thought there was no tape out jack, but I haven't looked back there for a long time.

    I'll check out Jeff's site. That sounds like the way to go.
    Dave, if you've got a tape/source switch on the LH side of the front panel of your SP-14, you're live. Just look for the tape-out and tape-in jacks on the back. I think Roy, Troy, Don, Holger et. al  all wire them that way. You don't need a "tape" option on the selector knob, just use the toggle switch for record and playback. If not, just have 'em punch a hole in the front panel and put the double-throw double-pole switch in; it's not rocket science to wire them -- at least for those guys. I don't mess with blonde frog-hair wiring anymore, so best have them do it while their eyesight is still good.
    Rediscovering tape has been an absolute pleasure for me, and with several makers of new and vastly improved Type 1 tape in business, it may be the new renaissance (is that redundant?) in analogue. Sounds to me like the Pioneer would make good sense in the waiting room, then cash in some bearer bonds to buy a rehabbed Technics for home hi-fi.






    and forget who got you back into r2r...... Wink
    Ah, the power of suggestion. And who ran down those three A-77s for you?

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