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    New cartridge advice

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    Dave_in_Va

    Posts : 128
    Join date : 2013-04-02

    New cartridge advice

    Post by Dave_in_Va on Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:07 pm

    I have a Music Hall 5.1 turntable with the original (3 years old) Magic 3 cart. That's a re-brand of some well known cart that I can't remember.

    I was thinking about trying this....

    DENON DL-110 | High-Output MC Moving Coil Cartridge

    https://www.amazon.com/Denon-DL-110-Output-Moving-Cartridge/dp/B000I1YLG0/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1473123818&sr=1-1&keywords=moving+coil+cartridge

    Do you think it's an upgrade? Do you really think it would be okay right into the PH 14 > Sp14? My phono pre-amp has no provision for a moving coil cart but this one is supposed to work with a normal input because of the high output.

    Thanks in advance.

    ramon68

    Posts : 83
    Join date : 2009-04-12
    Age : 75
    Location : naples fl

    Re: New cartridge advice

    Post by ramon68 on Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:34 am

    I looked back through your posts and find that you have a large record collection. OK, the Denon should work into your PH14, and you can get one for less than $200.
    After reading many good reviews of the Denon 103R, I bought one, and was disappointed. Bitterly. I then got an Audio Technica AT33PTG on ebay for under $500.
    Brilliant until I bent the cantilever. I just got an Ortofon Quintet Black for $700+ which sounds great out of the box. But these two carts require much more gain than a Denon 110.
    Long story short, get a good step up and a low output mc like the two I mentioned or Dynavector 20X2 or Benz Micro Ace, all of which can be had for well under $1000 if you shop around.
    Or, the Dynavector and Benz can be bought in high output versions. High output means the compromise of bigger, heavier generators in the cartridge.

    deepee99

    Posts : 1260
    Join date : 2012-05-23
    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    Re: New cartridge advice

    Post by deepee99 on Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:00 am

    Dave_in_Va wrote:I have a Music Hall 5.1 turntable with the original (3 years old) Magic 3 cart. That's a re-brand of some well known cart that I can't remember.

    I was thinking about trying this....

    DENON DL-110 | High-Output MC Moving Coil Cartridge

    https://www.amazon.com/Denon-DL-110-Output-Moving-Cartridge/dp/B000I1YLG0/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1473123818&sr=1-1&keywords=moving+coil+cartridge

    Do you think it's an upgrade? Do you really think it would be okay right into the PH 14 > Sp14? My phono pre-amp has no provision for a moving coil cart but this one is supposed to work with a normal input because of the high output.

    Thanks in advance.
    Ortofon also makes some very good high-output MC carts for not much money. I would c/o Needledoctor: http://www.needledoctor.com/ for advice. I had a Dynavector and just hated it. Lately been spinning a dirt-cheap Grado and liking it very much. You might just consider replacing the stylus on your existing cart.

    Dale Stevens

    Posts : 76
    Join date : 2014-07-06
    Age : 67
    Location : Loris, SC

    Re: New cartridge advice

    Post by Dale Stevens on Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:15 pm

    Dave, never heard a MC , I'm running the Ortofon 2M red. sounds great on my stuff.
    Looks like Ill see u Oct 3, hope u have that cart then. I'm bringing vinyl (2) that has never
    been played but twice. PM later Thx , Dale

    Tube Nube

    Posts : 603
    Join date : 2008-12-06
    Age : 53
    Location : Calgary, AB

    Re: New cartridge advice

    Post by Tube Nube on Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:09 pm

    Given the innovative design aspects that make this turntable perform above its price point, I think you can break the rule of limiting yourself to a cartridge of equal value.

    Moving coils take you to a new realm, so don't castrate the experience by goimg half measures (hi output mc). Get the real deal, and a step up transformer, such as several available as kits from K&K audio. You only save $50 bux buying the kit over he ready made, but the experience is worth it.

    Alternately, you could go all up town and get the Audio Note SUT, but here's an audio note warning: you risk getting an incomplete kit, or a kit midway between design alterations, and no help from the company building the thing that can't possibly work. Even your engineer friends won't be able to help you, and from AN, you will only get appeasing empty promises to deliver for well over a year before you give up in frustration.

    But I digress. . . .

    Where was I?

    I think that Music Hall of yours deserves a chance to dance with the pretty girl at the prom. Give it a try. If it fails to deliver, keep the mc, and move up to a used Rega.

    In for a penny, in for a pound. Vinyl is the natural ally of tube amps. Go for it!

    Dave_in_Va

    Posts : 128
    Join date : 2013-04-02

    Re: New cartridge advice

    Post by Dave_in_Va on Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:15 pm

    Any other recommendations for a step up transformer for a MC cart.? I have no idea of pricing for a device like this.

    Thanks.

    Tube Nube

    Posts : 603
    Join date : 2008-12-06
    Age : 53
    Location : Calgary, AB

    Re: New cartridge advice

    Post by Tube Nube on Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:25 pm

    Audio technica gives excellent value for money, all the way up to $10k., but don't spend anything like that now. I'd limit myself to an arbitrary figure of $1k.

    The SUT will run about $600.

    wgallupe

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2014-05-18
    Age : 62
    Location : Central Mass.

    Re: New cartridge advice

    Post by wgallupe on Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:36 pm

    Tube Nube wrote:Given the innovative design aspects that make this turntable perform above its price point, I think you can break the rule of limiting yourself to a cartridge of equal value.

    Moving coils take you to a new realm, so don't castrate the experience by goimg half measures (hi output mc). Get the real deal, and a step up transformer, such as several available as kits from K&K audio. You only save $50 bux buying the kit over he ready made, but the experience is worth it.

    Alternately, you could go all up town and get the Audio Note SUT, but here's an audio note warning: you risk getting an incomplete kit, or a kit midway between design alterations, and no help from the company building the thing that can't possibly work. Even your engineer friends won't be able to help you, and from AN, you will only get appeasing empty promises to deliver for well over a year before you give up in frustration.

    But I digress. . . .

    Where was I?

    I think that Music Hall of yours deserves a chance to dance with the pretty girl at the prom. Give it a try. If it fails to deliver, keep the mc, and move up to a used Rega.

    In for a penny, in for a pound. Vinyl is the natural ally of tube amps. Go for it!


    I agree with Tube Nube. I tried a few hi output MC carts including Goldring Eroica, Benz Micro ACE S, Ortofon HMC30 and Dynavector DV20XH. All are considered 'decent' performers and cost around $700-$900 at the time. In the end, I moved on to the real deal.

    Lo output moving coil (LOMC) together with a step up transformer (SUT) is the way to go. What I learned from my experience is that a top tier moving magnet cart will often perform and sound better than a HOMC or even an entry level LOMC.  

    Wayne

    Dave_in_Va

    Posts : 128
    Join date : 2013-04-02

    Re: New cartridge advice

    Post by Dave_in_Va on Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:13 pm

    What would be considered a top tier moving magnet cart.?
    Thanks.

    wgallupe

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2014-05-18
    Age : 62
    Location : Central Mass.

    Re: New cartridge advice

    Post by wgallupe on Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:07 pm

    Well as always the sky's the limit but, in the under $1000 category and in no particular order: Clearaudio Vertuoso v2, Ortofon 2M Black, Goldring 1042, Audio Technica AT150Sa .

    There are also some classic vintage carts like Grace F9E, Shure V15VMR and ADC ZLM all of which I have owned or still own and can vouch that they sound wonderful. I would put them up against any budget HOMC or LOMC.

    Anyway, take your time, keep researching and try not to fall for the 'its a moving coil cartridge so it must be better' idea that is so prominent on the audiophile forums.

    Regards,
    Wayne

    Dave_in_Va

    Posts : 128
    Join date : 2013-04-02

    Re: New cartridge advice

    Post by Dave_in_Va on Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:28 pm

    Thanks Wayne. I'd really rather not add another piece of gear (the SUT).

    j beede

    Posts : 316
    Join date : 2011-02-07
    Location : California

    Re: New cartridge advice

    Post by j beede on Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:06 pm

    I would avoid a MC cartridge--any low compliance cartridge--in any arm that has palpable free play in the bearings or bearing structure. My experience is that many currently popular tonearms cannot pass a simple free-play check.

    I would suggest you borrow or buy an old Rega 3 or 25 with an RB-30* arm and mount a low output wood-bodied Grado and enjoy the music. You will end up spending about what a mid-range step up transformer costs. Later upgrade the motor with the Rega kit.


    Pillo69

    Posts : 104
    Join date : 2012-04-11
    Location : Granada (España)

    Re: New cartridge advice

    Post by Pillo69 on Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:03 pm

    I use a Denon DL103 (MC) and a Shure V15-IV (MM).
    For the capsule MC I have introduced into the PAS (one of the Phono inputs) Two BeyerDynamic TR/BV-351-015-006 transformers.
    The transformers have a gain of 23 dB, are valid for capsules MC of between 0.18 and 0.71 mV.

    Characteristics:
    1:15 (200 Ohm / 45 kOhm)
    30-15000 Hz (+-1dB)
    Imput/output: balanced
    máx. input level at THD <= 1% (f>=30 Hz): 300 mV.
    Primary DC resistance: 85 Ohm.
    Secondary DC resistance: 10,4 kOhm.

    They are usually found occasionally on Ebay/Germany, about 20-25 euros/unit.

    [/url]

    Tom

    Posts : 166
    Join date : 2011-04-04

    Re: New cartridge advice

    Post by Tom on Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:54 pm

    Dave, I've got that cart on a Technics table (1300?) with the original arm.

    My pre is the old SP-9 (I think) integrated phono and line stage.
    The Denon 110 has less output than my Ortofon 2M red but plays great, esp on older scratchy stuff.
    I think for the price you can't go wrong and you'll have plenty of volume if you have a decent amp.
    Smile






    peterh

    Posts : 641
    Join date : 2012-12-25
    Location : gothenburg, sweden

    Re: New cartridge advice

    Post by peterh on Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:55 pm

    For us in europe there is a little known gem : Decca
    The downside is that you need 3 of them, one in the tt, one at decca for service and one in the mail.
    Decca don't make them anymore but there is still stylus service available.

    http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/deccalondon_e.html

    I know aboyt decca, i still have two in my possession.

    deepee99

    Posts : 1260
    Join date : 2012-05-23
    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    Re: New cartridge advice

    Post by deepee99 on Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:11 pm

    Tom wrote:Dave, I've got that cart on a Technics table (1300?) with the original arm.  

    My pre is the old SP-9 (I think) integrated phono and line stage.  
    The Denon 110 has less output than my Ortofon 2M red but plays great, esp on older scratchy stuff.  
    I think for the price you can't go wrong and you'll have plenty of volume if you have a decent amp.
    Smile





    It's hard to beat the Ortofon 2M series. And you avoid the cost of a SUT. If you get an Ortofon Bronze you can upgrade it to the Black with a stylus change-out. They are far sturdier than the ATs and you're in for way under a thousand bux. Way to go, IMHO. I don't believe the Red is up-gradable but it would be more than sufficient for most folks, methinks.
    I'm still enjoying the el-cheapo Grado on my Orbit turntable, so it may be a long time before I put the Ortofon back in.

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