New M125 ownership phase

LeGrace wrote:Finally shifting into enjoyment phase of these wonderful amps. So long paranoia phase!! Now I just sit back, relax, and enjoy. And smile a lot. I tried just two output tubes for awhile, that was insanity phase! Hang the cost, they just sound so much more dynamic when all four output tubes are installed.

I've learned a lot from good folks in this forum. You've helped me through my rectifier issues, and guided me through the tube types jungle. My M125's are so stable now! Thanks for sharing your time and knowledge.

I tend to jump around with my hardware, but my M125's are keepers. I mean they even make CD listening a pleasurable experience, which is saying a lot. I just love the way they make the music come alive, they are like the secret ingredient that makes the sauce special!

10-E-C wrote:

LeGrace wrote:Finally shifting into enjoyment phase of these wonderful amps. So long paranoia phase!! Now I just sit back, relax, and enjoy. And smile a lot. I tried just two output tubes for awhile, that was insanity phase! Hang the cost, they just sound so much more dynamic when all four output tubes are installed.

I've learned a lot from good folks in this forum. You've helped me through my rectifier issues, and guided me through the tube types jungle. My M125's are so stable now! Thanks for sharing your time and knowledge.

I tend to jump around with my hardware, but my M125's are keepers. I mean they even make CD listening a pleasurable experience, which is saying a lot. I just love the way they make the music come alive, they are like the secret ingredient that makes the sauce special!

Congrats on your M125's, I finished my build on 24 Dec 14 and they have been playing ever since. I've put a lot of hours on them and they preform magnificently. I've ran both 4 and 2 output tubes and settled on 2, my speakers are so efficient I couldn't tell any differents between two or four.

TM

Dogstar wrote:As much as I really enjoy my ST-120 i am a bit jealous of you M125 owners. Not to hijack the thread but would two ST-120's that are hooked up bi-amp ready speakers be close to equivalent performance wise to a pair of M125's?

Dogstar wrote:As much as I really enjoy my ST-120 i am a bit jealous of you M125 owners. Not to hijack the thread but would two ST-120's that are hooked up bi-amp ready speakers be close to equivalent performance wise to a pair of M125's?

deepee99 wrote:You might try bi-wiring as opposed to bi-amping if your speakers are set up for it. Made a huge improvement in Vandersteens. Tylers don't seem to need it so it's a hit or miss kind of thing.

LeGrace wrote:

Dogstar wrote:As much as I really enjoy my ST-120 i am a bit jealous of you M125 owners. Not to hijack the thread but would two ST-120's that are hooked up bi-amp ready speakers be close to equivalent performance wise to a pair of M125's?

Unfortunately not, because of the quirks of biamping. Would hardly be any different versus a single ST120.

Power wise it may look the same on paper, but consider what is happening to that power. You physically separate the bass unit(s) from the mid and high freq drivers. Then you allocate each 60 watts. 120 watts total, so same as M125, right? Well no. In the biamp configuration the bass driver is limited to 60 watts. In a non biamp configuration with M125's it can pull a lot more then 60w from the 125 watts that's on tap. The guy who needs it, the bass driver, really isn't seeing hardly anymore then he was before with a single ST120. So the extra 60 watts goes largely unused since the other drivers don't demand a lot. This unequal power demand is what defeats a lot of biamp attempts.

Now if you bridge the ST-120's to mono (assuming one can do that, I see a stereo/mono switch?) and use one per each channel, now its basically equivalent. And will sound much better then the same two units in a biamp configuration because the power can go to where its most needed.

The very unequal power needs of the various drives is why biamp folks often like to combine a low power tube amp with a beefy SS amp for the bass. But then you need an external crossover for it to work properly. When identical amps are used you can get away without an external crossover, but is rarely an efficient use of amps for the reasons cited above.  

Peter W. wrote:

deepee99 wrote:You might try bi-wiring as opposed to bi-amping if your speakers are set up for it. Made a huge improvement in Vandersteens. Tylers don't seem to need it so it's a hit or miss kind of thing.

What gauge wiring are you using? And at what distance?

deepee99 wrote:I've never A:B'd the ST-120 and the M-125s as I've only had the latter. Would be an interesting trial.

Bob Latino wrote:

Dogstar wrote:As much as I really enjoy my ST-120 i am a bit jealous of you M125 owners. Not to hijack the thread but would two ST-120's that are hooked up to bi-amp ready speakers be close to equivalent performance wise to a pair of M125's?

I have done the single M-125 per channel vs. the single ST-120 (biamped) per channel and can report that the sound is pretty much the same. The only caveat is that yes - your speakers are biamp ready AND that when the woofer or tweeter sections are split up, neither ALONE presents an odd impedence to the output transformer of the ST-120. Every speaker is different .. You might try your ONE ST-120 on ONE of your speakers in a biamped configuration just to see if it works OK ?

Bob