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    Wiring question

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    WireNut

    Posts : 38
    Join date : 2017-02-21
    Location : Twin Cities

    Wiring question

    Post by WireNut on Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:06 pm

    How long do you think it would take to un-solder and re-solder all of the wires and caps (not the resistors) in a driver board? I may have some cold solder joints.
    Thanks
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    corndog71

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by corndog71 on Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:37 pm

    WireNut wrote:How long do you think it would take to un-solder and re-solder all of the wires and caps (not the resistors) in a driver board? I may have some cold solder joints.
    Thanks

    5 minutes.
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    WireNut

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by WireNut on Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:23 pm

    No, seriously- there is an "expert" that thinks it will take longer.
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    cci1492

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by cci1492 on Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:47 pm

    ST70? Why remove, why not clean each joint and go over it? That's what I do when a bad joint is suspect and it works well.
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    WireNut

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by WireNut on Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:43 pm

    Thanks for the responses, I would like a few to weigh in on the time question.
    This is kind of a "trick question" but-
    How long do you think that would take?
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    pedrocols

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by pedrocols on Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:48 pm

    Is somebody trying to screw you over? If you have somebody doing the job for you just pay the guy and get it over with.


    Last edited by pedrocols on Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    WireNut

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by WireNut on Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:53 pm

    The guy says it takes him 14 hours to do the driver board & wants $500, he says it would take 32 hours to rewire a ST-70 and would cost me $1260 for a complete rewire... does that seem reasonable to you? It seems like a rip off to me.
    I have rewired and changed out all of the caps in a SS Sony VFET amp in less than 6 hours... and it has multiple more caps and wires than a ST-70. I have no experience with a ST-70 yet, but will soon as one of Joe's units is due to arrive today Very Happy
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    peterh

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by peterh on Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:57 pm

    WireNut wrote:The guy says it takes him 14 hours to do the driver board & wants $500, he says it would take 32 hours to rewire a ST-70 and would cost me $1260 for a complete rewire... does that seem reasonable to you? It seems like a rip off to me.
    I have rewired and changed out all of the caps in a SS Sony VFET amp in less than 6 hours... and it has multiple more caps and wires than a ST-70. I have no experience with a ST-70 yet, but will soon as one of Joe's units is due to arrive today :D

    Change repair man ! He is screwing you. I hope you don't already commited yourself.

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    WireNut

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by WireNut on Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:07 pm

    So how many hours do you think it would take to do a driver board and how many to rewire?
    I figure I could rewire a ST-70 completely in a couple of hours and do the driver board in a half hour?
    I just really want some estimates about the time it would take, but as I said- I have not done a ST-70 yet.
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    Captain Coconut

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by Captain Coconut on Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:05 pm

    pedrocols wrote:If you have somebody doing the job for you just pay the gay and get it over with.

    How do you know that he’s gay?
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    cci1492

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by cci1492 on Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:11 pm

    That's a lot of dough. I would sell that unit "as is" on ebay, and get one of Bob's already wired up. Bet it will cost you the same and you'll wind up with a kick @ss amp.
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    WireNut

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by WireNut on Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:39 pm

    I intend to sell it as is, there is a point of contention I have with the guy and need to know how much time it would take to do a driver board. All I am asking is how long it would take. I saw a video of a guy putting together a ST-70 and he said it only took him 16 hours for the whole project.
    1. I am selling the unit when and if I get it back
    2. I have already purchased one of Bob's amp kits- it should arrive this evening
    3. I will be installing Mundorf Supreme caps and the larger electrolyte for the driver board
    4. I will be using Jupiter wire and not the tinned stuff that comes with the kit
    5. I have a set of Siemens silver 12au7, a NOS set of Philips "Made for Medical", a set of Mullard 4003 NOS, etc, etc
    6. I will be buying a Bugle Boy GZ34 with DD getters
    7. I have Furutech chassis mount RCA's
    8. I have ETI binding posts
    9. I will be using Cardas quad solder

    It should sound pretty good when done. I will make a post about the build when I start.
    I have been in contact with Bob about what I will be doing with the new amp- I am just in a hassle about the old one.
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    WireNut

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by WireNut on Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:41 pm

    Just as an example- this amp http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/sony-tan-5550-build.726468/
    took me less than 5 hours to complete- it is in my system now replacing a Nelson Pass built from scratch VFET amp from the DIY network. It sounds terrific.
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    Peter W.

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by Peter W. on Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:00 am

    Three things: Early ST70s used low quality solid wire.
    The early kits suggested square-cut wire cutters, meaning each wire got slightly nicked when stripped.
    Early kits were assembled either by Drexel students on piecework, or the average guy/gal, neither of which were particularly skilled, and few of which were particularly careful.

    So, the actual answer is 5 to 100 minutes. 5 minutes if good solder was used by a skilled individual with a good round-cut wire-cutter.

    100 minutes if you start replacing the wires - and in 40%+ of the kits, you should.
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    mark four

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    wiring question

    Post by mark four on Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:03 pm

    he sounds like he is very slow and overpriced to me . do you really want to put that much money into the amp if you are going to sell it ? just sell the thing as is and tell the buyer what needs to be done . just do the buyer a favor and DO NOT refer him to your tech guy .


    Last edited by mark four on Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:04 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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    deepee99

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by deepee99 on Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:12 pm

    WireNut wrote:The guy says it takes him 14 hours to do the driver board & wants $500, he says it would take 32 hours to rewire a ST-70 and would cost me $1260 for a complete rewire... does that seem reasonable to you? It seems like a rip off to me.
    I have rewired and changed out all of the caps in a SS Sony VFET amp in less than 6 hours... and it has multiple more caps and wires than a ST-70. I have no experience with a ST-70 yet, but will soon as one of Joe's units is due to arrive today Very Happy
    Good heavens! Fire that guy. AudioBill on this forum can scratch-build a pair of VTA M-125s (boards included) for far less than that. Dunno what he charges for a VTA ST-70 all in, but it will certainly be less that the quote you're getting, and it will sound better. If your problem is just the board, get a new assembled one from Roy Mottram or Bill Gratix. Components and the physical board are much better than the antiques.
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    sKiZo

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by sKiZo on Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:20 pm

    WireNut wrote:
    1. I am selling the unit when and if I get it back
    2. I have already purchased one of Bob's amp kits- it should arrive this evening

    Seems you should be able to answer your own question when you find out how long it takes to build your new amp ... don't forget to include all the start up tests and such (as any decent tech would), and factor in your own skill level, adjusting the quote time appropriately. Took me several days once I got into the electronics, but I only did an hour or so here and there with a whole lotta breaks.

    PS - I doubt if anyone here has more than an hour or two into the VTA board (not counting practice time to fresh up on your solder skillz), even pointing both sides of each connection (highly recommended!) ...
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    pedrocols

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by pedrocols on Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:45 pm

    WireNut wrote:So how many hours do you think it would take to do a driver board and how many to rewire?
    I figure I could rewire a ST-70 completely in a couple of hours and do the driver board in a half hour?
    I just really want some estimates about the time it would take, but as I said- I have not done a ST-70 yet.
    I fixed the typo. I hope I did not offend any hyper sensitive soul.
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    deepee99

    Posts : 1911
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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by deepee99 on Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:22 pm

    sKiZo wrote:
    WireNut wrote:
    1. I am selling the unit when and if I get it back
    2. I have already purchased one of Bob's amp kits- it should arrive this evening

    Seems you should be able to answer your own question when you find out how long it takes to build your new amp ... don't forget to include all the start up tests and such (as any decent tech would), and factor in your own skill level, adjusting the quote time appropriately. Took me several days once I got into the electronics, but I only did an hour or so here and there with a whole lotta breaks.

    PS - I doubt if anyone here has more than an hour or two into the VTA board (not counting practice time to fresh up on your solder skillz), even pointing both sides of each connection (highly recommended!) ...

    A lesson I learned building my first M-125s is *take your time.* You're not in a race with anyone. My (thankfully few) mistakes were usually made at about the two-hour mark. Eyeballs get tired and patience wanes. That's when you screw up. Agree with Skiz, point both sides. Looking forward, in about a year, re-flow all your solder to compensate for heat-induced changes in the physical realm (board warp and tube sockets). Should be the last time you'll have to do that, however it's good insurance and doesn't take long.
    Again, take your time and when your eyes start to itch, quit. Also make sure you've got a Fluke and blinding lighting. Both make life a lot easier.
    Keep us posted.


    audiobill

    Posts : 307
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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by audiobill on Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:12 pm

    My advice is to order an assembled board or amp directly from Bob Latino.
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    WireNut

    Posts : 38
    Join date : 2017-02-21
    Location : Twin Cities

    Re: Wiring question

    Post by WireNut on Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:56 pm

    Guys, thanks for all of the really good info and advice! I am looking forward to building the amp with all of this excellent collaboration, a fella can't go wrong.
    I own the web site "cryo-parts" and want to use all of the stuff I have wanted in an amp for so long but my amps were already built and it would be difficult to add.
    I am going to put in my good friend Paul Speltz Level 6 interconnect wire for the input wire (he owns Anti-Cables and makes the Autoformers- he also works for AtmaSphere). I will also put in Jupiter 20ga wire where Bob supplies solid core tinned silver., Chris the owner of Jupiter gave me a tip for using his cotton covered wire for this application.  I will put in Mundorf Supreme coupling caps that will be bypassed by .01 Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil caps, this is the best sounding combo I have heard. (I have a friend that is a Mundorf distributor). Last but not least I will install ETI (formerly Eichmann) binding posts and RCA chassis mount connectors... all of these will be cryo treated.
    I think this should be everything I ever wanted in an amp... plus it will keep the wife happy because she loves "her tubey amps" with the nice tube bloom in the midrange.
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    deepee99

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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by deepee99 on Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:43 pm

    audiobill wrote:My advice is to order an assembled board or amp directly from Bob Latino.
    Yup. Why re-invent the wheel?
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    WireNut

    Posts : 38
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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by WireNut on Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:31 pm

    deepee, the glib answer is "because I can" - but I like this site so I will address your question with some car questions, one is even about a wheel.
    Before I got married I had a Porsche 911 SC Targa. It had the nice stock 5 spoke 7" wheels all the way around. Why would I put 8" wheels on the back and put light weight composite wheels in place of the stock ones?
    I currently have a Volvo, why would I take out the stock speakers and replace them with Focal Kevlar mids, Memphis subs, and titanium tweeters? Also why would I put in two larger amplifiers?
    In my Volvo I put in a chip that ups the HP and gas mileage, why would I do that?
    The answer to your question and the car questions is that people do these kinds of things to increase the performance. Some guys just like to do that, they don't knock the guys that are content with stock stuff... why would you knock someone that wants to get the most out of something?
    It will take zero time to substitute the parts, and it is my money- is it wrong to want to spend my money that way?
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    sKiZo

    Posts : 1449
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    Re: Wiring question

    Post by sKiZo on Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:34 pm

    Funny you should ask ...

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    deepee99

    Posts : 1911
    Join date : 2012-05-23
    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    Re: Wiring question

    Post by deepee99 on Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:49 pm

    WireNut wrote:deepee, the glib answer is "because I can" - but I like this site so I will address your question with some car questions, one is even about a wheel.
    Before I got married I had a Porsche 911 SC Targa. It had the nice stock 5 spoke 7" wheels all the way around. Why would I put 8" wheels on the back and put light weight composite wheels in place of the stock ones?
    I currently have a Volvo, why would I take out the stock speakers and replace them with Focal Kevlar mids, Memphis subs, and titanium tweeters? Also why would I put in two larger amplifiers?
    In my Volvo I put in a chip that ups the HP and gas mileage, why would I do that?
    The answer to your question and the car questions is that people do these kinds of things to increase the performance. Some guys just like to do that, they don't knock the guys that are content with stock stuff... why would you knock someone that wants to get the most out of something?
    It will take zero time to substitute the parts, and it is my money- is it wrong to want to spend my money that way?

    "Because I can" is good enough for me. I have a friend who's a line pilot for American Airlines who did some minor tweaks to his antique Ford Escort, including removing the windshield wipers, to reduce drag and improve gas mileage. I just blew a kilobuck on a quad of Brit-built GEC KT-88s, so who am I to talk? Very Happy I think they sound better than the new stuff.

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