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    tube rectifier diode mod

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    tubes4hifi
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    tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by tubes4hifi on Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:55 pm

    this is a common topic and search, so it'll be easier to find now
    this mod should be done to all tube amps using tube rectifiers, to reduce the chance of damaging the tube rectifier


    pmit2188

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by pmit2188 on Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:12 pm

    I would like to make this mod. Can anyone tell me if the 1N4005 diode will work. It is the only one I can get at a local store. (Radio Shack)

    anbitet66

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by anbitet66 on Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:57 pm

    The 1N4005 has a reverse breakdown voltage of 600 volts as compared to a 1N4007's 1000 volt rating. It will work, but I'm not sure if the diode's breakdown voltage needs to be higher in order for it not to be damaged.

    With it in series with a 5AR4 it probably doesn't matter, but I'd wait for another opinion. My guess is it would work just fine.

    Tony

    Bob Latino
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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by Bob Latino on Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:22 am

    Those diodes will look at about 360 VAC. Either the 1N4007 or the 1N4005 should work fine .. Since the 1N4007 is 1000 volt rated, I would probably use the 1N4007 ...

    Bob


    Last edited by Bob Latino on Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

    pmit2188

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by pmit2188 on Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:34 pm

    Thanks Tony and Bob for the help. Tim.

    heyraz

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    More Diodes

    Post by heyraz on Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:47 am

    I saw this on DiyAudio: "Dynamutt, The ST-70 that should have been". Two MUR4100 are placed in series (total 4). I'm not sure why they did it this way.
    http://geek.scorpiorising.ca/contrib/Geek/ST-70-P10CVD_power.gif
    http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/blogs/geek/140-dynamutt-st-70-should-have-been.html

    Bob Latino
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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by Bob Latino on Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:57 am

    When you put two diodes in series you get more reverse current blockage than using just one diode. That's why two diodes are used on each leg of the power transformer secondary.


    Bob


    Last edited by Bob Latino on Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:41 am; edited 3 times in total

    heyraz

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by heyraz on Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:21 pm

    Agreed. I was only wondering about the diodes in series and why the Dynamutt guy may have thought it was benificial. I suppose it is a "backup for the backup" redundant design. Thanks again for all of your help. Rich

    GP49

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by GP49 on Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:27 pm

    While the 1N4005 would work as protection devices for the rectifier tube, for safety reasons I'd want to go with a diode having the voltage rating they would require if they were doing the rectification job all by themselves. If the rectifier tube were to fail shorted, the 360AC RMS voltage, recalculated to peak voltage, could go far over the 600PIV of the 1N4005, which could then itself fail shorted and throw a huge current on the power transformer until something blew (hopefully the line fuse).

    Silicon rectifiers used in a full-wave, two-phase power supply should have a PIV rating of 2 times 1.4 times the RMS voltage being delivered by the transformer. With the Dynaco Stereo 70 transformer at 360-0-360Vrms the diodes should be rated at 2 x 1.4 x 360 = 1008V PIV. This is very slightly more than the 1000V rating of the 1N4007 but with tolerances on the diodes' PIV generally all on the positive side, the 1N4007 would probably survive.

    I appreciate that parts are not as available as they once were, but being conservative in design matters, I would suggest that instead of settling for what Radio Shack has, you look into other vendors that could supply the 1N4007.


    pmit2188

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by pmit2188 on Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:42 am

    I failed to tell you that my amp is the SP-120 if that makes a difference. Well, after making the mod with the 1n4005 diodes it was put to the test with one of those quick power outages when the power goes out and then comes right back on again during a wind storm. The rectifier tube is still working. Yes!!

    mantha3

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by mantha3 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:36 pm

    Hi,

    I put some time (too much time) into researching this mod after I lost a nice NOS Sylvania big bottle GZ34. I think the real fix to the lost GZ34 was me not turning my ST120 amp up to full blast... Anyhoo...

    I found some conversations about what diode to use for this Mod. I ended up going with a UF4007. the UF4007 is basically the same as a 1N4007 having 1A / 1,000 volt rating but a more modern Ultrafast recovery version diode. One post spoke of the UF4007 potentially limiting the possible “switching” you could hear. This “switching” got shot down by a few who talked about all the capacitance that would buffer this out. I also saw some conversations about the need to go with the full 1,000 volt and I read some detail about why the 1,000 volt diode is needed. I wish I could find it. I'm not as tec savy to have this in my head. I’d go safe and run the 1,000 volt and error on the side of over spec... So go UF4007 or 1N4007

    1N4007 is a $.09 each (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fairchild-Semiconductor/1N4007/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuQUXCJI7Y4lvWy%252b1U8RtCq)
    UF4007 is $.49 each (http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/UF4007/UF4007CT-ND/965732)

    You may have a harder time finding the 1N4007 as the UF4007 is sort of the current diode for the application I think… Either way the mod should cost 20 cents or you can go Deluxe for the full 1 buck! I thought I’d live it up and go a buck! … Oh, plus shipping.

    I use www.digikey.com because they are in Minnesota where I’m at. So I support em.

    Don’t use something else.. wait the 3 days to have the UF4007 or 1N4007 come in the mail… any pay the couple bucks to have them come. We all have audio problems and probably pay too much for this hobby… 3 bucks is not worth a cut corner! Laughing

    Cheers (insert beer drinking smily here)


    www.mouser.com
    www.digikey.com

    Feistygoat

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by Feistygoat on Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:18 am

    Bummer - I want to do this mod, I only show one red lead going to my rectifier socket. I have a van Alstine modded ST - 70, so assume changes may have been made. In the diagram at the beginning, it says to move the red leads to pins 5 and 7. That being the case, what two pins are the power leads originally on? Is it 4 and 6 where the diodes (after the mod) jump to?
    I apologize for my ignorance. I am fairly new to this, but trying to learn fast. Any help is much appreciated.
    Thanks

    burnedfingers

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by burnedfingers on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:47 am

    Your transformers two red power leads originally went to pins 4 and 6 and since the pins 5 and 7 are not used it makes sense to use them. Pull the wires off pins 4 and 6. Install a diode band side to pin 4 and the other end to pin 5 install one of the power wires to pin 5. Install the second diode band end to pin 6 and other end to pin 7 install other power wire to pin 7. If you cannot find your two red power wires on the 5AR4's socket then trace the wires from the transformer and see where they go.

    There is absolutely no difference sonically between a standard 1N4007 and the fast recovery. YOU WILL NOT HEAR A DIFFERENCE!!!

    Feistygoat

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by Feistygoat on Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:49 am

    Thanks for the help. I knew there wouldn't be any difference sonically, I just want to preserve my rectifier as long as possible

    heyraz

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by heyraz on Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:32 pm

    Here's how I did it. I mounted a 2 tab ungrounded terminal strip on one of V1's mounting screws and moved the red transformer wires to that. Follow the diodes in the picture to see the rest. Note-Try to give the diodes breathing room because they get hot.


    arledgsc

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by arledgsc on Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:20 pm

    On another web site it has been suggested a better solution is to use one forward conducting diode on the rectified output of the GZ34 (inserted between GZ34 pin 8 and the first filter can cap). Doing so eliminates potential diode switching hash noise from a pair on the transformer output. The single diode on the output is always conducting in normal operation. And in the same way blocks reverse current arcing on AC power interrupt short cycles. I'm about to start a new ST-120 build and will probably try the single diode approach for starters. I have some nice beefy 3A 1000V diodes (UF5408) that should do the job. At a current of 400mA the Vf (forward voltage drop) across the diode is about 1.0V so the power dissipation is 0.4 watt worst case. Should be no sweat for this device. So I'll probably install the diode on the GZ34 pin 8 (anode) to pin 7 (cathode band) and then attatch the filter can wire to pin 7. Scott

    tubes4hifi
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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by tubes4hifi on Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:02 pm

    yes, that should work fine also

    poconoman

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by poconoman on Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:25 pm

    Is a better solution a soft start SS or tube rectifier?


    Maintarget

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by Maintarget on Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:39 pm

    I'm in the process of building a ST 120 would this be a worth while modification?

    arledgsc

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by arledgsc on Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:55 am

    Is a better solution a soft start SS or tube rectifier?
    In high fidelity audio equipment I prefer SS rectification because it is much more efficient than tube rectifiers. The Weber WZ68 plug-in SS rectifier though has worked out great in the ST-120. The Weber's mild series resistance to mimic voltage sag of tube rectifiers isn't even noticed. Guitar amps are another story as the tube rectifier and associated voltage sag can be used as part of the feel of the amp at higher gain. And tube rectifiers have periodic replacement costs associated with them plus the vintage varieties are ridiculously expensive. Soft start is a must though for SS rectifiers whether a standby switch or something like the VTA relay board to hold off plate voltage while the cathodes heat up.
    I'm in the process of building a ST 120 would this be a worth while modification?
    If you plan on using a tube rectifier then the diodes are good insurance against rectifier tube flash over on power failures. And if considering the VTA relay board then the diodes may not be needed. The relay will open on power failure so no return current path through the power transformer secondary windings.

    arledgsc

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by arledgsc on Sat May 04, 2013 12:29 pm

    Be careful of orientation of the diodes when installing. You will have big problems if installed backward...
    What happens when installed backward

    sKiZo

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by sKiZo on Thu May 16, 2013 7:40 pm

    Just to clarify ... you can still use a solid state copper cap with this mod? Can't imagine why not, but worth checking ...

    PS ... an FYI. Your local Rat Shack should have IN4007 diodes ... there's a strip of five in their #276-1653 assortment pack.


    arledgsc

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by arledgsc on Thu May 16, 2013 8:48 pm

    You should not have any problems. I would only use the 1N4007 diodes from that pack as this part has 1000V reverse voltage breakdown rating. The 1N4001 also included only has 50V rating and the others in between. So make sure the pack you pick up has at least a couple 1N4007s. Radio Shack description "25 x 1A diodes - may include: 1N4001, 1N4002, 1N4003, 1N4004, 1N4005, 1N4006 and/or 1N4007".

    sKiZo

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by sKiZo on Thu May 16, 2013 9:59 pm

    Good catch ... guess I got lucky.

    They also sell magnifying glasses, or bring your own.

    corndog71

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    Re: tube rectifier diode mod

    Post by corndog71 on Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:59 pm

    I was just wondering if either the tube rectifier or copper cap are even necessary.  Couldn't one just make a 4 diode bridge rectifier to do the same thing?  Or is all of this just a part of using the traditional dynaco enclosure/layout? Of course this would be in conjunction with the delay board.

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