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    If you can't afford it....

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    wildiowa

    Posts : 155
    Join date : 2012-03-19

    If you can't afford it....

    Post by wildiowa on Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:31 am

    ...go listen somewhere you can. This latest in the NYT...wondered what folks thought about the led photo featuring the "worlds greatest sound system..."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/31/arts/music/london-listening-clubs-spiritland.html?_r=0
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    Tube Nube

    Posts : 666
    Join date : 2008-12-06
    Age : 53
    Location : Calgary, AB

    Re: If you can't afford it....

    Post by Tube Nube on Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:21 pm

    An interesting article, Wild'. I'd love to check out such a place. What an intense capital investment, though!

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    Guest

    Re: If you can't afford it....

    Post by Guest on Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:15 pm

    what I like to see is their business model, especially the proposed return on investment and over what period!
    There's some serious money tied up in that kind of setup, not to mention monthly costs!
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    deepee99

    Posts : 1533
    Join date : 2012-05-23
    Location : Wallace, Idaho

    Re: If you can't afford it....

    Post by deepee99 on Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:51 pm

    They can't top what I've got in my living room.
    Mebbe I should start charging admission.
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    tubes4hifi
    Admin

    Posts : 1347
    Join date : 2008-11-30

    Re: If you can't afford it....

    Post by tubes4hifi on Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:11 pm

    it's a fantastic idea.
    If anyone has bought the excellent book "Get Better Sound" (one of the best hi-fi books I've read)
    then you should be aware that the author has built a demo room that you can visit to do critical listening.
    Info here . . .  http://www.acousticfields.com/sacred-ground/

    About a year ago I posted info on this book somewhere on this forum.
    Your listening room is the MOST important component in your stereo system.
    So your budget should allocate probably 30-50% on your ROOM, not on your equipment.
    Here's a link to someone who did it right !!
    http://www.acousticfields.com/dedicated-listening-room-north-carolina/
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    Kentley

    Posts : 415
    Join date : 2015-03-06
    Age : 64
    Location : Worcester, MA

    Re: If you can't afford it....

    Post by Kentley on Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:17 pm

    "So your budget should allocate probably 30-50% on your ROOM, not on your equipment."

    So true, Sir Roy M.! Or if you are lucky enough to be spared the SAF, {or WAF} and can do any bloody thing you want to your best room, you can actually accomplish a lot for little to no expense. At the risk of repeating myself, wonders can be done with rugs, wall-hangings, towels, drapes, bulky furniture, etc. But the real Art comes with managing the pesky mid-bass eccentricities of almost every available room. Much has been written on this subject, some of which is nice to know, but downright impractical for many of us. And there are a few genuine myths out there which have been embraced by too many. Keeping the space between speakers open is one of these absolute falsehoods. PM me for my rationale on that.
    There are two magnificently effective tools that cut those heavy resonances and nodes that bedevil our bass. First, tightly packed newspaper in paper bags. Second, bags of unmixed cement or concrete. Placed in corners, around speakers, and behind the plane of sound does wonders. I'd invite any of you over to prove my point. I've taken a 10X13X7 space, of less than 1000 cubic feet, placing the Tyler Acoustics speaks, against all theory, on the LONG wall, and deadened most surfaces for control of mids and highs, while using my magical paper/cement trick. I believe it is also necessary to buy your speakers "a size too big" for this approach to be most useful, though I haven't had the opportunity to test this theory.
    I really believe that one can accomplish more with this approach, combined with your best "listening ears" {thank you, Judge Judy!} than you can with all the aftermarket expensive hardware out there, which includes the concurrent "room analysis software" and the consultant fees for an "expert". Heck, I'll come to your place and do my Magic for a meal and a bottle. santa
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    sKiZo

    Posts : 1379
    Join date : 2013-04-01
    Location : Michigan USA

    Re: If you can't afford it....

    Post by sKiZo on Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:47 pm

    "Hardscaping" certainly comes first - been there, done that - but that faces a law of diminishing returns. There comes a point where software can save the day ... as well as a lot of headaches.

    Not all that expensive any more either. Gone are the days of the van full of experts in white coats setting up mike stands and chanting matras as they dialed in their specialized equipment to voice a room. I can do pretty much the same thing here with a very basic setup which includes a calibrated mike, a laptop, breakout box to replace the horrendous audio IO on my laptop, an SPL meter, and an ADC to feed the laptop's output to the audio system. Fire up the FREE software (REW) take a few frequency sweeps, and export the filters it creates to my HTPC. I print out the filters REW creates for my HTPC and use those to set up my PEQ ...

    (Doncha love it when they speak alphabet?) clown

    Anyway ... a couple hundred bucks, not counting the laptop which I already had, and I've got the room dialed in to the next best thing to perfect.

    PS ... REW is simple to operate in it's basic sweep mode, but you can make it as complicated as you want ... very robust feature set for the tweakers amongst us. Can I interest anyone in a waterfall?



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    Kentley

    Posts : 415
    Join date : 2015-03-06
    Age : 64
    Location : Worcester, MA

    Re: If you can't afford it....

    Post by Kentley on Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:35 pm

    Ah, the Fight between the Correct-the-Room bloc and the Correct-the-Source constituents rages on.
    My argument for the former approach has several points. First, my approach costs nothing - beyond, of course, careful selection of hardware from source to speakers. Second, the room analysis software presupposes that one can monitor sound accurately with any given microphone(s). Anyone who's worked in a recording studio knows that every mic has it's own character, both in terms of frequency response and directionality. No microphone ever made can match the human ear. Third, the ability of the human ear/brain to compensate, both positively and negatively, to stimuli is not yet well quantified. Last, for me at least, the challenge of relying on my own bad/good judgement is most satisfying.
    It's hard to really discern how much successful manufacturers of our gear rely on one philosophy of Sonic "Perfection" or the other, but I suspect that more progress is made today by engineers who use both methods - but the Final Solution is, I think, the Human Ear.
    Sorry for all the capitalizations. You can tell I'm passionate about this. Like Bob, Roy, and Tyler. And many others.  Cool

    And sKiZo, I'd rather surf your Green Curve with my ears than my board....

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