Help with connecting Regulate Power Supply to TLCA and Phono 10 boards

Hi All,

I apologize if this is a boring question that keeps getting asked, but..... Instructions provided for the Regulated Power Supply confuse me. There are 8 pairs of wires that need attached to the underside of the Power Supply. I think I get the first 4 pairs. The other pairs of wires become foggy to me. I do not see a designation on the Power Supply that is denoted H+ or H- however I do see those designations on the TLCA board. Also, I see F+ and F- on the Phono board, which perplexes me. I am sorry to admit that I'm also unaware of how to connect the Phono board to the TLCA.

Is there anyone in the Kansas City area who has done these modifications to their Pas3 before? Would he/she be willing to give me some pointers? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated as I'm really missing my system.

Thanks in advance,

Dan

Oh yeah, I should have started this off by saying properly saying hello, Hello Everyone
I'm new here so I'm not sure exactly how I will find responses to this thread, if there are any. If anyone would like to message me directly I can be reached at tramrider(at)hotmail (you know the rest)
Thanks again everyone

Hi Guys,
Just checking back in. I've built these nice, but very lonely boards. Can any one on the forum give me some pointers on how to properly connect them to each other?

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Roy Mottram should be able to provide you with all the wiring diagrams for your pcb's, in fact I would have thought they would have been supplied with the kits.
F+ & F- are your filament supplies for the PH10 phono amp. Without seeing the circuit diagram, cannot really comment on the H+ & H-, other members here or Roy will be able to help you out for sure.

Thanks MontanaWay,
I know its self explanatory for some people who know circuitry.  I'm just the type that likes to be super sure before I put the thing together.  I was surprised with the directions as well.  It seems that some aspects of the kit assembly are driven the ability to read schematics.  I have had luck with the ZKIT1's that Decware offers, as well as the Updatemydynaco replacements for almost everything inside an ST-120.  Those directions were much more "paint by number"  Thanks very much for your help though, I know I'll get this thing together sooner or later.

The updated ST-120 and SP is a good match.

I built a similar combination last year. Here are some pictures from an earlier thread.

https://s103.photobucket.com/user/Elrick_02/media/PAS%20Preamp%20Upgrade/DSC_2228_zpsfa26d399.jpg.html

https://2img.net/h/i103.photobucket.com/albums/m140/Elrick_02/PAS%20Preamp%20Upgrade/DSC_2229_zpsadb51308.jpg

https://2img.net/h/i103.photobucket.com/albums/m140/Elrick_02/PAS%20Preamp%20Upgrade/DSC_2227_zps468ba166.jpg



https://s103.photobucket.com/user/Elrick_02/media/PAS%20Preamp%20Upgrade/PAS%20Aikido%20pics/DSC_2354_zps55dd77ab.jpg.html?sort=3&o=5

https://s103.photobucket.com/user/Elrick_02/media/PAS%20Preamp%20Upgrade/PAS%20Aikido%20pics/DSC_2353_zpsf68efca2.jpg.html?sort=3&o=6

https://2img.net/h/i103.photobucket.com/albums/m140/Elrick_02/PAS%20Preamp%20Upgrade/PAS%20Aikido%20pics/DSC_2365_zpsb07de7a4.jpg

On the final picture notice the alligator clipped leads, if your board doesn't have a wire connecting those locations you will need to add one. I had a devil of a time getting mine set up because that jumper was missing leading to more troubleshooting than I expected until I figured that out.  If I remember correctly they are for filament continuity.

In situations like this I tend to start with what I know then ask for further help as i make progress. Once you are stuck ask specific questions and it will take shape. Sometimes the process of elimination will go a long way.
didn't you receive interconnect diagrams from Roy? I received a couple of diagrams showing the power supply, signal paths, grounds and filament supply connection points. Hope my links work.



This is a shot of the entire finished project after added a new balance pot.

Hi Dan,
it never hurts to send me an email and ask questions, because I can give you the right answers!
I'm sending you a hookup diagram via email. H+ and H- are just another way of saying F+ and F-, which is just another way of saying
those are the connections for the tube filaments. Kind of like B+ is the HV (high voltage).
Send me an email if I can't find yours . . .
info@tubes4hifi.com
Roy

with half a dozen different boards, multiplied by every possible combination, it gets a little difficult to make a diagram for Each possible combination.
But see these two links, which are for the same power supply, same PH10, but the AIKIDO instead of the TCLA.
All the connections are actually identical.    One drawing for power, the other drawing for signals.

Holy Hotdogs!!!!
That is just what the doctor ordered. Thanks so much for the map!! Now I just have to muster up the stones to wire this thing up. I'll be sure to take pictures of the finished project and share some listening observations.
Thanks MontanaWay,Elrick, and pmarcin.
Thanks especially Roy.
I can't wait to hear the new Preamp!!

litefootdan wrote:Holy Hotdogs!!!!  
That is just what the doctor ordered.  Thanks so much for the map!!  Now I just have to muster up the stones to wire this thing up.  I'll be sure to take pictures of the finished project and share some listening observations.
Thanks MontanaWay,Elrick, and pmarcin.  
Thanks especially Roy.
I can't wait to hear the new Preamp!!

we look forward to your report!!

Well, Its been a real long time since I've reported but my project did not die!!!!!!!   'au contraire mon frere' and my sister/s  ; )      I studied the papers sent by Roy and connected the boards together in my Pas-3 chassis.  Initially I hooked the preamp up to another project amplifier that I had been using.  The amp was a Dynaco St-120 that underwent almost complete gutting and replacement with goods from "updatemydynaco".  I had used the amp before and was never let down by it.  To make a long story short, when the two worked together, there was a very prominent hum- much too loud to enjoy music.  I thought I had done something wrong.  I took the preamp with all paperwork to someone I trust in town and he could not find out what the problem was.  I was prepared to turn my back on the preamp, but fate would not have it.  In the mean time I had (very luckily) come across a tube amp made by Decware.  It is called the Torii Mk IV.  When the preamp is connected to this amplifier, there is no hum.  It is silent.  it is glorious.  Not only in that it is silent in the back ground, but it is glorious in how the two play together.  I have heard some pretty good stereo systems (OK nothing in the 30K range), and I have heard all the progressions of my stereo systems- but I must say that I am flattened by how the tubes4hifi boards perform.  This preamp is revealing, confident, honest, smooth, rich, melodic,     the adjectives could go on, but why?  I have heard nothing better between my sources and my amplifier.  The combination just floors me.  And it does so on many stages.  I have run this combination, the Decware/Tubes4hifi equipment on everything from a Foster 103t double mouthed horn, to an Altec 755 sealed cabinet (JE Labs), to Electro Voice 12trxb's in  simple Bass reflex, to a pair of Hartley Holton A's.  All combinations are wonderful.  Finally, my upstream equipment can present the best of what these speakers have to offer.  This has all become a reality because of Roy's circuit engineering and modest pricing.  I cannot thank Tubes4hifi enough.  It is so nice to just know that audio "home" is here.   I suppose the only thing I could do would be to try my hand at an SP14 partnered with a PH-16 (a little while down the road, but not out of sight).  For now, I'm just another satisfied drifter on the the next note.  Thanks Roy!!!!

litefootdan wrote:Well, Its been a real long time since I've reported but my project did not die!!!!!!!   'au contraire mon frere' and my sister/s  ; )      I studied the papers sent by Roy and connected the boards together in my Pas-3 chassis.  Initially I hooked the preamp up to another project amplifier that I had been using.  The amp was a Dynaco St-120 that underwent almost complete gutting and replacement with goods from "updatemydynaco".  I had used the amp before and was never let down by it.  To make a long story short, when the two worked together, there was a very prominent hum- much too loud to enjoy music.  I thought I had done something wrong.  I took the preamp with all paperwork to someone I trust in town and he could not find out what the problem was.  I was prepared to turn my back on the preamp, but fate would not have it.  In the mean time I had (very luckily) come across a tube amp made by Decware.  It is called the Torii Mk IV.  When the preamp is connected to this amplifier, there is no hum.  It is silent.  it is glorious.  Not only in that it is silent in the back ground, but it is glorious in how the two play together.  I have heard some pretty good stereo systems (OK nothing in the 30K range), and I have heard all the progressions of my stereo systems- but I must say that I am flattened by how the tubes4hifi boards perform.  This preamp is revealing, confident, honest, smooth, rich, melodic,     the adjectives could go on, but why?  I have heard nothing better between my sources and my amplifier.  The combination just floors me.  And it does so on many stages.  I have run this combination, the Decware/Tubes4hifi equipment on everything from a Foster 103t double mouthed horn, to an Altec 755 sealed cabinet (JE Labs), to Electro Voice 12trxb's in  simple Bass reflex, to a pair of Hartley Holton A's.  All combinations are wonderful.  Finally, my upstream equipment can present the best of what these speakers have to offer.  This has all become a reality because of Roy's circuit engineering and modest pricing.  I cannot thank Tubes4hifi enough.  It is so nice to just know that audio "home" is here.   I suppose the only thing I could do would be to try my hand at an SP14 partnered with a PH-16 (a little while down the road, but not out of sight).  For now, I'm just another satisfied drifter on the the next note.  Thanks Roy!!!!

Hi Litefootdan

I would like to respond on your comments about the "updatemydynaco" refurbished ST-120 (solid state). I've built 2 of them as well as 2 Akitika's GT-101. On one of these a hum was present, which got worse day after day.. It turned out to be that the thermal compound on the PSU heatsink, had "degenerated" resulting in a watery solution that did not do the job it was supposed to do. Internals of the amp were "wet"......This lead to a ground problem = hum. Cleaning and using new compound solved the problem.
The refurbished ST-120 can be an amazingly fine amplifier, so I would suggest to test it and drop a line to Dan Joffe. He is an extremely likeable man, who will be glad to help you out.

BTW I also have a VTA-ST-120 tube amp that I like a lot :-)))

Marc, Thanks so much for the information.  I suspect I have found a mistake I've made.  I do not think the problem is in the Modified ST-120.  I think it is in the input/output board i assembled.  I was having a look at Elrick's post above.  He included a picture of his finished chassis with tubes4hifi boards installed.  I noticed that I had forgotten to include some things on my replacement input/output board.  There are resistors between the input grounds and the output grounds.  There are also resistors between the output signals and the board grounds.  Also, the Phono ground is linked with the rest of the rest of the grounds, I have not done this.  Finally, the whole input/output board is then tethered to a chassis ground in the original Pas-3.  I have done none of this in my tubes4hifi unit.  Perhaps this is why I am getting a hum.  It is a little strange that I don't get the hum when I am using this preamp on the Decware Torii....  I don't know why it should react any differently than when running with another amplifier.  What ever the case, I'll try to tie all the input/output grounds together, tack in the resistors, and give it a ground to chassis.  We'll see if that fixes the hum when I run it with the modified ST-120
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with my Tubes4HiFi PAS3 I-O board, which it looks like you have, all the grounds are already tied together, except for the phono input grounds,
which need to be connected to the phono board ground only, in order to eliminate any possible ground loops.
Also, all of my line stage boards (Zmod, TCLA, AIKIDO) already have the output tie-down resistors on the PCB, so you don't need to add
any resistors at all to the I-O board.
If both your Dyna ST120 amp and your PAS3 have a 3 wire grounded cord (not likely on the PAS3) then you COULD get a ground loop.
Also - on your photo, I don't see a jumper on your balance control or volume control to connect the two grounds together, perhaps you have a ground loop there?
I normally jump the two grounds on the balance control and volume control, and only connect one ground to the PCB input and connect one common ground to the volume control

Thanks so much Roy.  I didn't know about the tie-down resistors already being present.  I do need to get a ground from the phono input to the phono board ground.  However the hum is essentially the same whether I am using the phono or another source.  Perhaps I've goofed the volume and or balance controls.  Here are a couple photos- First the top side of the controls for identification purposes, second the underside of the controls to asses how I've soldered them together.  First off the bat, I see that I've gone from the balance control to the linestage board with two grounds, perhaps I should eliminate one of the paths.  The right and left channel grounds have been tied together in both the volume and balance controls.  
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Many thanks for the help and guidance.  I truly appreciate it.

yes, looks good, but remove one of the two ground connections from balance to PCB input
and add a ground wire connection from PCB phono input to phono input jack ground

Thanks again for having a look at my posts Roy. I disconnected one of the grounds from the Balance control and added a wire from the phono input ground to the phono PCB ground. I did not notice any improvement in the hum
At very least the condition (the hum) is very quiet, almost non existent when I use the preamp with my Torii amp. I have not tried the preamp with any thing else besides the modified ST-120. Neither of the units, the Pas-3 or the ST-120 have 3-prong chords. But the Decware amp does. At any rate, I am disappointed in that I cannot use the preamp with the ST-120, but relieved I can with the Torii. I still think the preamp is an amazing piece. It sounds wonderful.

So Again,

It has been quite a long while since I concluded this thread.  I've been listening to the preamp for right at a year now and I'm absolutely happy with it, it is a top notch piece.  I've always been curious about Roy's SP14 and PH-16 and I was so happy with the improvements on the Pas-3 that I made the move.  I have to admit that March Madness promotion left me no other choice.  Then I got to reading a review of the PH-16(link at the bottom of the PH-16 page).  The gentleman reviewing it said he felt underwhelmed with the PH-16 until he rolled some different tubes through it.  The light switch went off and I remembered I'd sourced some good old production tubes for the Phono 10 in my Pas-3.  When I swapped them in I was caught a bit off guard.  What a pleasant improvement.  In my estimation, the whole musical presentation became fuller and not a bit of delicacy was sacrificed.  Perhaps even an improvement in tiny details too.  If the SP14 and PH-16 are as good as advertized(joke of course) I have no idea what I will do.  I'll not be able to leave my records for days on end.  I'll have to quit my job.  I'll pray they don't shut off the electricity.  

Thanks everyone who jumped in to help me get through the Pas-3 project.  I really appreciate your help.  I'm almost certain I'll have some stumbling blocks when I get to the SP14 and PH-16 and I'll probably ask you fine group of enthusiasts.  Thank you for being so willing and gracious, and intelligent.  Now all I have to do is get off my Kiester and build the kits.  But that is a tall order as I'm still intoxicated by the glorious notes coming out of my speakers.......

it is always a big learning curve! It is amazing though what you pick up in this forum, the knowledge base is amazing!
Glad to hear all is good, enjoy your 'new' PAS3!

Question for litefootdan --- The selector switch that you are using in your PAS Upgrade, where did you get it?

I ask because I am building the same arrangement of PCBs.

Thanks in advance,
Stew

Stew, in that most recent photo, that looks like an ELMA selector (same as Goldpoint) they run about $70 instead of $2 like the original, but they are nice!
I've got an extra one