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The Dynaco Tube Audio Forum

Dedicated to the restoration and preservation of all original Dynaco tube audio equipment - Customer support for Tubes4hifi VTA tube amp and preamp kits and all Dynakitparts.com products


    Looking for more top end sparkle

    eminence1963
    eminence1963

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    Post by eminence1963 on Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:06 pm

    Looking for recommendations on getting a little more top end/sparkle on my ST120. Any body out there with suggestions? Currently have GL KT88's and Mullards new production's 12au7 installed all 3 positions. The tubes it came with are just as bad IMO. At a low listening volume is where I need it the most. Its fine at medium to high volumes. Yes I have some hearing loss Laughing

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    Dave_in_Va
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    Post by Dave_in_Va on Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:35 pm

    I have some high end hearing loss also.
    Try a NOS 7316 in the middle position. It's expensive but worth it.
    I also picked up a recapped consumer grade equalizer (Mitsubishi DA-G156).
    The tubes that came with my VTA ST 70 were fine, by the way.
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    monkuboy

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    Post by monkuboy on Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:29 pm

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    peterh
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    Post by peterh on Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:30 pm

    eminence1963 wrote:Looking for recommendations on getting a little more top end/sparkle on my ST120. Any body out there with suggestions? Currently have GL KT88's and Mullards new production's 12au7 installed all 3 positions. The tubes it came with are just as bad IMO. At a low listening volume is where I need it the most. Its fine at medium to high volumes. Yes I have some hearing loss Laughing
    This is where tonecontrols or equalizer is needed.
    Many years ago a "loudness" function that raised both treble and bass was standard
    ( although possible to disconnect) on high end stuff.

    One could install an eq between pre and amp, but the best position imo is a
    "loop" connectiion located in the pre between input selector and volume control.

    One pre that actually had this was the dynaco pas4.

    PeterCapo
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    Post by PeterCapo on Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:03 pm

    Short of tone controls and/or an equalizer, Electro Harmonix KT88 and Tung Sol nine-pin tubes may get you a bit more top end.
    MechEngVic
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    Post by MechEngVic on Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:52 pm

    Your amp should have all the sparkle you want, I'd work on my speakers.

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    eminence1963
    eminence1963

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    Post by eminence1963 on Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:41 pm

    Some one mention RCA clear tops. I dont have any, but I had a Conn 12AU7, put it in the middle position and its all I needed. Have RCA clear tops on order
    corndog71
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    Post by corndog71 on Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:41 am

    This sounds more like a speaker issue than an amp issue.

    What are your speakers?
    Bob Latino
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    Post by Bob Latino on Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:52 pm

    It could also be a speaker issue combined with a slight loss of top end hearing. emminence 1963 (I am assuming was born in 1963) and is 57 years old. Some of us older audiophiles maybe don't notice that their hearing has deteriorated slightly over the years. Below is a chart showing men and women's hearing loss as they age. emminence1963 according to the chart would be down 30+ decibels at 8 KHz. That combined with a speaker having lower top end output could cause the listener to miss some of the top end sparkle found in music. The VTA ST-120 amp has a flat response out to about 30 KHz. Even changing out the center drive won't change the top end response that much ..

    Bob


    Looking for more top end sparkle How-Much-Doesit-Matter-Fig-1

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    DavidR
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    Post by DavidR on Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:29 pm

    Ditch the new production 12AU7 tubes. Get (2) quality NOS 12AU7 and a Tung-Sol 12BH7A from the late 50's for the center position.

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    Midwestside
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    Post by Midwestside on Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:01 pm

    DavidR wrote:Ditch the new production 12AU7 tubes. Get (2) quality NOS 12AU7 and a Tung-Sol 12BH7A from the late 50's for the center position.

    Im guessing the 12BH7A could go for the center position in a vta st70?
    Dave_in_Va
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    Post by Dave_in_Va on Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:09 pm

    Don't laugh.

    A 50/50 solution of hydrogen peroxide and distilled water. About ten drops in each ear for five minutes and then flush with warm water.
    A build up of ear wax will cut your high end. A problem that SOME people have, not everybody.
    Not trying to be funny or gross but it is a thing.
    peterh
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    Post by peterh on Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:16 pm

    Dave_in_Va wrote:Don't laugh.

    A 50/50 solution  of hydrogen peroxide and distilled water. About ten drops in each ear for five minutes and then flush with warm water.
    A build up of ear wax will cut your high end. A problem that SOME people have, not everybody.
    Not trying to be funny or gross but it is a thing.
    Don't do this. This is dangerous.
    If you suspect ear vax, then visit a doctor.
    eminence1963
    eminence1963

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    Post by eminence1963 on Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:22 pm

    Dave_in_Va wrote:Don't laugh.

    A 50/50 solution  of hydrogen peroxide and distilled water. About ten drops in each ear for five minutes and then flush with warm water.
    A build up of ear wax will cut your high end. A problem that SOME people have, not everybody.
    Not trying to be funny or gross but it is a thing.

    Thanks Dave for the tip. But already do that once a week. LOL Very Happy lol!
    eminence1963
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    Post by eminence1963 on Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:26 pm

    [quote="Bob Latino"]It could also be a speaker issue combined with a slight loss of top end hearing. emminence 1963 (I am assuming was born in 1963) and is 57 years old. Some of us older audiophiles maybe don't notice that their hearing has deteriorated slightly over the years. Below is a chart showing men and women's hearing loss as they age. emminence1963 according to the chart would be down 30+ decibels at 8 KHz. That combined with a speaker having lower top end output could cause the listener to miss some of the top end sparkle found in music. The VTA ST-120 amp has a flat response out to about 30 KHz. Even changing out the center drive won't change the top end response that much ..

    Bob

    I already suffer from hearing loss Bob. Working on jets running in after burner is ear piercing. Thanks for the info. Doubt there's anything wrong from speakers, there brand new. Ya caught me on the the date and being 57 years old lol!
    Bob Latino
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    Post by Bob Latino on Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:38 am

    I did not mean any disrespect in calling your age into the mix regarding the lack of top end in your music system BUT > sometimes older audiophiles like us don't realize that we have lost much of our top end hearing. I have posted this Youtube video on the forum here before. The video gives a sinusoidal frequency of the human audio spectrum (20 Hz to 20 KHz) Try listening to this video on some quality speakers. What frequency do you lose the sound ? I am in my 70's and can still hear the tone up to about 7500 Hz (7.5 KHz) and then silence for the rest of the video. Try it yourself ..

    Bob


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    corndog71
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    Post by corndog71 on Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:18 am

    Wow!  I can still hear up to 13 KHz!  And I'm only 48. I did shoot a lot of guns and went to many concerts in my 20's.
    DavidR
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    Post by DavidR on Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:31 am

    Midwestside wrote:
    DavidR wrote:Ditch the new production 12AU7 tubes. Get (2) quality NOS 12AU7 and a Tung-Sol 12BH7A from the late 50's for the center position.

    Im guessing the 12BH7A could go for the center position in a vta st70?

    Yes
    Midwestside
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    Post by Midwestside on Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:10 pm

    50 and it cuts at 15k for me.
    Midwestside
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    Post by Midwestside on Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:12 pm

    DavidR wrote:
    Midwestside wrote:
    DavidR wrote:Ditch the new production 12AU7 tubes. Get (2) quality NOS 12AU7 and a Tung-Sol 12BH7A from the late 50's for the center position.

    Im guessing the 12BH7A could go for the center position in a vta st70?

    Yes

    I purchased a Tungsol 12BH7a over the weekend and it arrived today. Wow, talk about top end!
    I have nothing special in the Left and Right positions. Any recommends?
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    StevieRay

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    Post by StevieRay on Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:59 pm

    Do you mind if I ask where you sourced that Tungsol tube?

    Or where anyone else has a good idea on where to source tested, NOS 12BH7's?  They seem to be rare, and I believe they should also be tested for relatively low noise, something the eBay sellers generally don't do -- all they brag about is how "strong" they test.....
    Midwestside
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    Post by Midwestside on Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:14 pm

    StevieRay wrote:Do you mind if I ask where you sourced that Tungsol tube?

    Or where anyone else has a good idea on where to source tested, NOS 12BH7's?  They seem to be rare, and I believe they should also be tested for relatively low noise, something the eBay sellers generally don't do -- all they brag about is how "strong" they test.....

    I bought it on ebay. "Vintage Single Tung-sol 12BH7A Gray Plates Tube Amplitrex Tested NOS" paid about 26.00 shipped
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    Dale Stevens

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    Post by Dale Stevens on Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:01 pm

    Stevie : Some of us use the goto Jim McShane ; He's the only guy I've used for replace. Dale
    corndog71
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    Post by corndog71 on Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:14 pm

    Dale Stevens wrote:Stevie : Some of us use the goto Jim McShane ; He's the only guy I've used for replace.  Dale

    I get mine from Jim as well. He's a running a little behind on orders lately so if you don't hear from him right away just be patient.

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