Brimar 12BH7

Looking to make a change in the center driver tube on my VTA ST-70. What are thoughts on an upgrade to a Brimar 12BH7? Currently use NOS RCA 12AU7A's in all three locations. Appreciate comments.

I have a VTA ST70. After trying an RCA 12BH7 I immediately went back to a 12AU7.
The NOS RCA's are great tubes.
I settled on an Amperex 7316. Expensive but worth it.

Of course, there are so many variables with different set ups (room, speakers, preamps, etc., etc.) that this doesn't really mean much.
A 12BH7 isn't very expensive so give it a shot and report back.

Thanks Dave. I do like my sound but always searching for more via roling. My VTA is pushing Fritz Carrera BE's. Brimars are not cheap though unless you have a source for me. Ill check into the Amperex, appreciate that suggestion!

Are the RCA 12AU7A tubes clear tops?

yes sir!

Brap wrote:yes sir!

Clear top RCA 12AU7A has been characterized as perhaps the best sounding 12AU7. Still it's hard for me to believe it sounds better than a 12BH7A.

Why Brimar? RCA, Tung-Sol and GE from the late 50s with black plates are some of the best sounding 12BH7A tubes.

The Amperex 7316 is as rare as hens teeth. Here's what's been written about it >>>
"Simply an amazing tube. Amazing both because it sounds so incredibly good, and amazing how rare it is today. The 7316 was made by Amperex in Holland, I have never seen this in any other brand, nor have I seen it made by Amperex North America. It is a medical grade/aircraft equipment grade super low noise tube, not sold to the general public. It is Amperex's answer to the ECC802S produced by Telefunken, and the 10M series made by Mullard. Most have the Bugle Boy on the label, although I have seen plain Amperex labels, and OEM labels such as Beckman Instruments. The 1950s vintage with the long plates and D-getters are to die for. They are among the best sounding and rarest 12AU7 around today. Don't miss the 1960s halo getter version of this tube, as well. They sound nearly as good as the D-getters and are usually half the price. Very few dealers ever have the 7316 of either type in stock, well worth seeking out and worth the higher price. We try to keep a few of each type in stock, but it is not easy. Better buy them when you can find them!"

I might part with one of these >

Brimar was an initial choice based on reading other forums. I'll keep my eyes out for the 716's for sure. As stated, happy with the sound but reading gets me in trouble. Again, just wanting to change the center driver and leave the RCA's for each side.

I know exactly what you mean by "reading gets me in trouble".

Me too !

Tubes has become more of a collector status for me. I'll never have the time to listen to all the tubes I've bought.

Found a NIB NOS Amperex 12AU7 for $70. Ordered up and will see how it sounds

Hit send too soon. 1967 date code

Jim McShane recommended a Genalex reissue B749/12AU7 to me for the center tube. I bought it, haven't tried it. My RCA tubes supplied with my VTA-120 by Bob sound great, won't try the Genalex until the Tubes supplied by Bob wear out.

Hops wrote:Jim McShane recommended a  Genalex reissue B749/12AU7  to me for the center tube.   I bought it, haven't tried it.  My RCA tubes supplied with my VTA-120 by Bob sound great,  won't try the Genalex until the Tubes supplied by Bob wear out.

Driver tubes can last many, many, many hours. You should at least try it to make sure nothing is wrong with it.

Well, 1967 Amperex arrived today and installed. Need to get some time on it but the Fritzies have found a new bottom, not that I thought they could have!. Didn't need a sub before and now for sure do not. Used this as the center driver and kept the NOS RCA clear tops for both sides. Imaging seems to have a bit more depth too. Thus far, happy camper

After further listening, I guess I need to burn this Amperex in a bit. I did some rolling last night comparing it to my RCA clear top and the Amperex sounds a bit muddy and harsh in the mids. Also the imaging seems more "compressed" This is on RTR input. Thoughts appreciated.

Get some hours (100+) on it first and then listen.

Is it a Bugle Boy?

Clear tops are near the top of the list for best 12AU7.

No It is not a Bugle Boy. Those are quite pricy from what I have seen!

My favorite center is a Brimar 12AU7

https://upscaleaudio.com/collections/preamp-tubes/products/brimar-cv4003-12au7?variant=21831850821

I have RCA clear tops that sound a bit bright in comparison. The Brimar has tons of air. When I got my amp, Bob had NOS RCA non-clear tops that sound great. I haven't and probably won't try the Amperex Bugleboy or Mullard= $$$.

I guess it's 50/50 based on what I have read regarding "burn-in" of driver tubes. Well, I'm putting some hours on them at low listening levels to see if there are any changes after 50 hours or so.

I didn't do any break-in as I recall. I did have more time on the tubes that came from Bob. I listened to tracks I knew from 5-6 well recorded cd's, tried different center tubes, and took notes of what I was hearing.

I did this with:

Bob's 5963 RCA non clear tops (#2)

various NOS "CONN/Baldwin" labeled Raytheon, Sylvania, 12AU7's and a Clear top d-getter RCA from eBay (All tied for #4)
this is the seller:  https://www.ebay.com/sch/spin4cards/m.html?item=162571308503&hash=item25da014dd7%3Ag%3APCEAAOSwCGVX4G3V&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

more clear top RCA's from a friend (#3)

And the NOS Brimar CV4003 from upscale. (#1)

I'm only a satisfied customer of the above sellers, btw.