Turntable suggestions?

peterh wrote:There is several sources for rumble. Main bearing is one of the least
common one (for turntables of any decent make)
Engine vibrations another, tonearm/cartridge resonances yet another
Dirty/worn idler wheel, etc.

Peterh,
Thank-you for the thoughts. My VPI is brand new and doesn't make a sound. If it ever does I'll chuck it and go find a decent AR turntable. I think I bought one new for $75 back in the 1970s and it never gave me a bit of grief.

Cheerio

I recommend you google hi-fi cartridge reviews and scroll down to edsstuff.org. Ed covers a wide variety of cartridges and his assessments of cartridges
are to the point and refreshingly free of B.S. He reviewed your cartridge and a bunch of Grados including the Reference Sonata.
Your cartridge has a micro-line stylus and none of the Grados do. I have an AT33PTG which also has a micro-line stylus and it is dead quiet in the groove.

I've found myself too many times with wrong cartridge alignment that produces audible rumble. When I set up a cartridge, I use a magnifier glasses just like the watch makers uses. It cost about $20 maybe less and it is one of the must helpfull tools for proper cartridge set-up. Cantilever should be as near to perfect as possible aligned with your main protractor mark. If you have feedback from your turntable, try to use three cones for feet, like vibrapods or Audioselection works perfect.
If you still having noise, check if the tonearm wires are not peeled off. Tonearm wires and ground to preamp insulation is so important that a faulty insulation can make your TT to pick up external sounds very easy.

Regards!

No mention so far of the Mitsubishi DP EC-10 ...



Maybe because I got the only one ever made. Seems that way anytime I try to goooooogle anything about it.

Just did a complete rebuild and it's back to spec and sounding proud. Well worth the $400 I paid new in 1980. What would that be in today's money? Around what ... a trillion?

Anyway - I'd suggest something similar - a direct drive with a boatload of poles on the motor, and an isolated semi-automatic mechanism with it's own drive motor that handles arm movement then retracts completely from the arm when it's not needed. You don't want a bunch of mechanicals impeding the arm during play. Mine uses friction drive when it's actually engaged with the arm. Pretty neat.

If you want to go cheap, there's a lot of good second hand tables out there too. I got a Technics SL23 a while back for $20. Needed a new belt and a good cleaning is all. Good looking too - not a scratch on it. Servo controlled for real accurate speed. That's something you'll want to look for in a belt drive.

Makes a good backup table, and really excellent sound with one of my old Pickering cartridges.

Okay. Here's my prime turntable. A Garrard 301 with Rabco SL-8E linear tracking arm, and Decca Mk VI Gold cartridge upgraded to Super Gold by John Wright, the man who builds all new Decca/London cartridges today.

The Garrard was bought used from Pacific Stereo for $30 a long time ago. How long? The salesman was Dick Schram, now president of Parasound. The Rabco was a junk box find. The Decca was purchased new from the Canadian importer, when they were marking them up a lot less than was the USA importer. The Garrard and Rabco have been completely disassembled and overhauled. I built the special retrofitted tonearm wand for the Rabco, replacing the original that looked like a bridge girder. The whole is assembled into a laminated birch plywood plinth that weighs about forty pounds.



I even have an AUTOMATIC RECORD CHANGER in my system. It does get used for that age-old tradition of Playing Christmas Records, but it's really there for playing 78rpm records. The cartridge, a Stanton 500, allows easy change of stylus, and the easily interchangeable spindles make for quick conversion between single and multiple play (I am too lazy to get up and change records in a multi-disc set every three minutes). Why this particular record changer? The pusher platform is the gentlest and most reliable automatic record changing mechanism ever developed; unlike changer mechanisms that act at the spindle, it doesn't cause wear or chipping of the center hole. There were many record changers with pusher platforms but of them all, this model had the best tonearm, and also has a heavy cast alloy platter.

Rich wrote:I've found myself too many times with wrong cartridge alignment that produces audible rumble. When I set up a cartridge, I use a magnifier glasses just like the watch makers uses. It cost about $20 maybe less and it is one of the must helpfull tools for proper cartridge set-up. Cantilever should be as near to perfect as possible aligned with your main protractor mark. If you have feedback from your turntable, try to use three cones for feet, like vibrapods or Audioselection works perfect.
If you still having noise, check if the tonearm wires are not peeled off. Tonearm wires and ground to preamp insulation is so important that a faulty insulation can make your TT to pick up external sounds very easy.

Another approach to consider: http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=149&Itemid=221

Mostly the low frequency part of the filter.

i am a big fan of technics, their turntables are like swiss watches... i own 2 technics SL-1200mkII, and a SP10mkII (which I took apart to retro fit it's high torque motor to my presto 6n recording lathe)..


I recommend the SP10 MKII, MK2a, or the MK3... the mk2 series will get you for about $1000-$2000 used, usually with no tone arm or plinth.. The SL-1000 is the same as the SP10MKII, but it is factory installed in a plinth and comes with a nice tone arm... the MK3 (if you can find one) goes for about $9,000-$13,000 used, usually with a GREAT tone arm in a plinth (the strongest direct drive turntable motor ever created, something like 12lbs of torque on start up.. it'll rip your arm off).. the draw back of the MK3 is that it was only manufactured for asian radio stations in the 80's (very low numbers, super rare) and only runs on 100v mains... All these turntables require an external power supply (SP10MKII,MK2a,MK3).. MAKE SURE IF YOU BUY ONE IT HAS THE PSU!!!! unless you want to try to build one from the schems in the service manual... i also recommend servicing the PSU before you attempt to use the turntable, a serious recap job is usually required... hope this helps

I have an AR-XA a friend gave me in 1970. He had bought it used a few years earlier. AR upgraded it for me in 1972 and I used it frequently before buying CDs, I still use it occasionally. I also have a spare 2 part AR platter to make up another turntable using a Hurst synchronous motor I bought recently that seems very quiet. I don't have it in front of me at present to provide the identification data, but it's not the least expensive Hurst, rather the ~$65 300 RPM motor.

I've also glue up a solid plinth using scrap Baltic Birch that is about 2+" X 13" X 18", it's quite heavy. It'll be heavier when I add 1/2" Corian top and bottom plates. I can mill parts for a bearing housing as well as a new sheave for the motor. What I need to find though is a good reasonably priced tonearm. I should add that I have a new Shure M97xE cartridge.

I recently modified another turntable for 78RPM records and learned a little doing it, but this next project I would like to be an improvement on the AR-XA, which still has the original tonearm. I'll appreciate any suggestions regarding this project, especially for the tonearm.

TN Allen wrote:
...I recently modified another turntable for 78RPM records and learned a little doing it, but this next project I would like to be an improvement on the AR-XA, which still has the original tonearm. I'll appreciate any suggestions regarding this project, especially for the tonearm.

That's a tall order--good reasonably priced tonearms are not easily found these days. Since it sounds like you are altering the AR's suspension by changing the top plate and bearing mount, maybe you should go vintage and try a Rabco SL-8E. They are not terribly expensive and are about the right vintage for an AR-XA. It might be a bit of stretch to call a stock Rabco a "good" performer, but compared to the stock AR-XA arm it would be an upgrade. Neither incorporates proper bearings in the vertical plane.

Other (potentially) reasonable cost arms from the ~1970's you might search for would include: ADC LMF, Grace 540/707/840, Mayware Formula IV. If you can find one, Connoisseur sold an arm in the 1970s called the SAU-2 that was about the cheapest stand-alone arm you could buy at the time. I built a turntable around one and was pleased with the results. Note: Most vintage arms will have sloppy feeling bearings compared to what is offered today. I think arm bearing quality improved dramatically in the 1980s with the advent of arms from the likes of Breuer, Ittok, Fidelity Research, etc. Those arms still command lofty prices 30 years later.

If you are willing to spend ~$300 a Rega RB-250 or RB-300 would be hard to beat in terms of value.
...j

The Jelco 750 series arms are highly thought of. Jelco makes arms for several Japanese turntable makers as well as for Ortofon and the 750 is sold to the
public starting at under $600. I have no experience with them but have read they are better than the basic Regas. You can also scour used equipment listings
of hifi dealers and Audiogon for Rega arms. That would be the cheapest option for a quality arm.
I owned a Rabco arm decades ago and I wouldn't recommend trying to refurbish one for its musical value. You can do better with a good pivoted arm.

I checked out the Thorens web site and the TD235-2 looks like the turntable I'd pick as a new Thorens turntable. It's semi-automatic in that there is an auto return but you manually set the stylus on the the record album. New it goes for $1100. Does anyone have this model? Or is it better to purchase one of the older models that's been refurbished by someone such as Vinylnirvana.com?

My next choice is a new Techniques SL1200Mk2...unless I can find a really nice used one since they go for $1400.

My one and only turntable I had back in the 70s and 80s was a Yamaha direct drive. It was nice but since becoming more well read can understand why a good belt drive table is a better choice.

I'm really leaning towards the Thorens TT. Perhaps even one of the less expensive ones from Vinylnirvana.com.

Thanks for any suggestions.