Interesting discussion on speaker cable snake-oil

corndog71 wrote:I'm a little surprised that some of you guys are so quick to write off cable differences but can gush endlessly about the sonic differences of a tube or a cap which has a much shorter signal path.

ramon68 wrote:There are two hobbies here that get conflated, music listening and equipment collecting. The equipment collectors are into the "mine is bigger than yours" game.
Hence, the astonishing prices of some equipment.

Peter W. wrote:

corndog71 wrote:I'm a little surprised that some of you guys are so quick to write off cable differences but can gush endlessly about the sonic differences of a tube or a cap which has a much shorter signal path.

I tried responding at length yesterday, but it black-holed for some reason.

So, here goes, only shorter:

Tubes are active components. They affect the signal directly.
Capacitors are passive components that affect active components. By their nature, they may be 'tuned' for specific purposes. One example: Filter caps are called "Filter" for a reason.
Cables are pathway with nothing to add or remove.

Does this help?

corndog71 wrote:

Peter W. wrote:

corndog71 wrote:I'm a little surprised that some of you guys are so quick to write off cable differences but can gush endlessly about the sonic differences of a tube or a cap which has a much shorter signal path.

I tried responding at length yesterday, but it black-holed for some reason.

So, here goes, only shorter:

Tubes are active components. They affect the signal directly.
Capacitors are passive components that affect active components. By their nature, they may be 'tuned' for specific purposes. One example: Filter caps are called "Filter" for a reason.
Cables are pathway with nothing to add or remove.

Does this help?

Except that we know resistance can affect sound quality otherwise we'd all be using 30awg wire for everything.  Why bother using something thicker?

We also know RFI and EMI can be picked up by wires and potentially be amplified by our amplifiers.  These can be "filtered out" by simple cable geometry such as twisting or braiding.

So I would disagree with your claim that they have nothing to add or remove.

deepee99 wrote:

corndog71 wrote:

Peter W. wrote:

corndog71 wrote:I'm a little surprised that some of you guys are so quick to write off cable differences but can gush endlessly about the sonic differences of a tube or a cap which has a much shorter signal path.

I tried responding at length yesterday, but it black-holed for some reason.

Peter W., Gotta side with Corndog on this one. Up to a certain price point, cables do impact sound. I'm not talking the $8k/foot snake-oil out there, Resistance being the concern in our little man-caves, even for short runs, silver is the preferred conductor and offers the least resistance. Look that one up on the Periodic Table.
As to your disparagement of the better-grade Chinese drivers, what has been your experience with them? I've had crappy NOS American/Brit tubes, Russian 6H8Cs, as well as some real beauties, but I think you ought to try a set of PSVanes or Black Treasures before bashing them. Listen, learn, and be amazed.

Why is it that I always state words to the effect: After basic suitability, capacity and QC are met....

And then someone throws 30 gauge wire on the table?

As to Chinese tubes, I have never had a modern production Euro/US tube slag on me. 40% of my Chinese tubes have slagged. That would be dozens of the former, and  ten (10) of the latter.  How they might sound is relatively meaningless if they destroy themselves in the process, and in one case, but for put blind luck, I would have lost my power transformer.  Sorry, no Chinese Junque here.

Maintarget wrote:http://diyaudioprojects.com/Power/Low-Inductance-DIY-Speaker-Cables/

If you are into DIY this is right up your alley if not interesting read.
My only comment would be "If there is measurable resistance, inductance and or capacitance in any material and or component passive or active used in any circuit (Including speaker cable/wire) seems like it would have some effect on the performance of the circuit"
Is it detectable in the human hearing range and by all listeners?
Bottom line like Roy has stated many times
"What the listener is hearing is subjective".............

Dave_in_Va wrote:I'm not a tech guy.
In the comparison chart here

diyaudioprojects.com/Power/Low-Inductance-DIY-Speaker-Cables/

What should I be looking for under the Capacitance, Inductance and Resistance columns?

Tube Nube wrote:Because auditory sensory-level memory deteriorates rapidly--even more rapidly to a fraction of a second with new incoming seansation, it is imperative that any fair test allow for immediate swithching such as you've described. This will also allow for blind testing, and is easily adapted to double-blind testing (if the one at the switch cant see the cables, or is "psychologically" in the dark regarding presumptions about what "better" cables might look like).

I would agree with the double-blind proposal. The switches certainly could be blind such that even the user could make the changes yet not know which was "on" or not. The only certain condition would be "both". There is virtue in simplicity.

Thise objecting to this type of testing might protest the lack of opportunity to appreciate the whole experience of getting to know a set of cables through the course of a full song, or many songs over a period of weeks. This type of testing, however, is problematic for making comparisons. The ability to "hear" differences is lost without i mediate switching. Instead, what is being compared is what has been remembered... The things that have been noticed and encoded to memory.

The entire point of this method is that at no time would the speakers be unpowered or the amp be unloaded. This would even account for the amp changing it sound based on the load it sees. Essentially, it would see no change in load. More so, the user could come and go over some period of time most resembling their own listening habits in their own listening room with only the box intruding.

Perhaps a hybrid of the two approaches can be struck. One could listen as long as they like to each cable individually. Take note of its perceived attributes, and then later, listen for thise specific attributes, one at a time, in a double blind test involving immediate switching.

Dave_in_Va wrote:Thanks, but I was kinda hoping to know whether I should be looking for higher or lower values in the Capacitance, Inductance and Resistance columns.

Thanks.

Peter W. wrote:

Dave_in_Va wrote:Thanks, but I was kinda hoping to know whether I should be looking for higher or lower values in the Capacitance, Inductance and Resistance columns.

Thanks.

In all cases, lower.  

But, as you certainly understand that none of these values will ever equal 0, and the point of diminishing returns is met far more quickly than you run out options, knowing when it is 'low enough' is useful.