More dumb streaming questions

by cci1492 Thu May 04, 2017 9:41 am

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by j beede Thu May 04, 2017 11:55 am

Vinyl/tape for critical listening. For me there is no need to spend $$$ streaming when I can use an iPhone/iPad to wirelessly transmit Spotify via Apple Airport Express ($50 on CL). Great way to explore unfamiliar music.

The 21st century seems to be characterized by remote controls and mid-fi with easy access to huge libraries of music. That's a good thing. The 20th century gave us the golden age for those who choose/care to listen more carefully. That's a great thing.

Mid-20th century +/- gave us things like:
-Marantz 8B, 9
-Marantz 10B/Sequerra 1
-Thorens TD-124/-Garrard 301
-Sony TTS-3000/Linn LP-12
-Dynaco MkIII/Heathkit W-5M
-KLH 9/Quad ESL
-AR/Advent/Dynaco 2-ways
-Studer/Revox
-etc

by Peter W. Thu May 04, 2017 12:04 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by Peter W. Thu May 04, 2017 12:04 pm

I find all streaming services as experienced to-date to be unlistenable. They are getting better - about as good as what comes out of a bad (really) bad tuner, or what one hears in a good car audio system at speed. But for home use, high-fidelity, not so much.

by deepee99 Thu May 04, 2017 12:31 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by deepee99 Thu May 04, 2017 12:31 pm

cci1492 wrote:I realize this is a Dynaco forum and this question may not be an appropriate use of this resource (cluttering it up with unrelated stuff). I will delete this right away if this is indeed the case.
What are you using to get services like Spotify or Napster to play through your hifi systems? I've been using a Yamaha HT receiver that's connected to my network and then via RCA connected to the pre-amp. Is this the way to go? Is using something like a Sonas or Arcam rPlay better? I'd like to be able to use a laptop or ipad using the Napster app to select songs and play them on the pre-amp but not use bluetooth or airplay because they're not the best in quality. Is my thinking correct here? I'm trying to break into the 21st century here

cci1492: Only dumb question on this forum is the one not asked. I suspect a growing number of us bottle-head knuckle-draggers have discovered streaming. (Tidal is my favourite for sound quality and catalogue depth, pay the artists, and they give a discount to veterans.)
With Audio Bill's patient expertise and advise, here's what I ended up with:
One Airport Express hard-wired to the ISP's modem, which establishes an in-house wireless LAN that nose-picker teenager down the block will have to get your wi-fi computers talking to. Buy a second AE located within short cabling distance to the stereo using one of its several outputs. The AE's built-in 50-cent DAC chip is OK but you can bypass it and connect via a short optical run to a real DAC (Emotiva Stealth or Schiit Bifrost, either at around $400, comes to mind) and output via XLR or plain old coax to your preamp.
So, $200 for a pair of AEs, <$50 for cables, and you're in like Flynn. An iPad or iPhone will control any of these set-ups.

by **Bob Latino** Thu May 04, 2017 2:51 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by Bob Latino Thu May 04, 2017 2:51 pm

cci1492 wrote:I realize this is a Dynaco forum and this question may not be an appropriate use of this resource (cluttering it up with unrelated stuff). I will delete this right away if this is indeed the case.

Your question about streaming services is fine here as it falls under #4 below ..

On the Dynaco Tube Audio Forum you can ask ...
1. Any questions about original Dynaco tube gear
2. Any questions about the Tubes4hifi products (amps, preamps or parts)
3. Any questions about Dynakitparts products
4. Any general audio related questions

Bob

by bluemeanies Thu May 04, 2017 3:52 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by bluemeanies Thu May 04, 2017 3:52 pm

I have APPLE TV and I am streaming TIDAL

by anbitet66 Thu May 04, 2017 4:45 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by anbitet66 Thu May 04, 2017 4:45 pm

Wait,

So am I the only skin-flint that uses the fee version of google play music?

I started using it just for the music files I keep on my phone, but at some point I decided to give it a try for streaming. Not too bad for music quality, but the maddening part is the commercials at 3 song intervals. Though, right now I have been using it for the last week and a half with no commercials at all. Don't know how or why, I'd rather not ask.

It's simple enough to send to a Bluetooth receiver plugged into a music system to listen at home or to a car radio.

If nothing else, the price is right. Wink

Tony

by cci1492 Thu May 04, 2017 5:11 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by cci1492 Thu May 04, 2017 5:11 pm

Thank you all for the information provided, many choices out there. Been using free Pandora off the HT receiver but I'd rather get a Napster or Spotify monthly account and stream to the tubes.

by corndog71 Thu May 04, 2017 6:33 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by corndog71 Thu May 04, 2017 6:33 pm

I just had a conversation with my brother who listens to Spotify. He thought the speakers I got for him were sounding bad but it turned out it was the compression from Spotify. It's also recording dependent as some bands sound better than others. I enjoy technology but I'm in no hurry to start streaming. If I like something enough I'll buy the hard copy.

by cci1492 Thu May 04, 2017 6:43 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by cci1492 Thu May 04, 2017 6:43 pm

I'm the same way corndog. I hear something new, listen to it on youtube, then get the CD from amazon and they put it on their music service, and then I play it from my Roku.

by bluemeanies Fri May 05, 2017 10:28 am

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by bluemeanies Fri May 05, 2017 10:28 am

Seriously, why pay for a cd? TIDAL offers millions of songs and music videos for the price of one cd a month. They offer a FREE 30 day trial. If you are a Veteran that $19.99 fee is substantially reduced.
Free cataloging by date, alphabetical or by artist.
Is TIDAL for everyone absolutely not.
However it is worth that FREE Trial inspection.
The sound quality is equal to cd quality if you chose that venue.
Millions of songs to chose from. Will TIDAL have everything you want as a listener...probably not but from millions of songs how can you go wrong.
Compared to Spotify the sound Quality is much better but of course Spotify is cheaper.

by deepee99 Fri May 05, 2017 1:33 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by deepee99 Fri May 05, 2017 1:33 pm

It should go without saying that streaming quality is quite dependent on the reliability and speed of your ISP and modem. Doesn't work so hot on dial-up Smile

More than once have I had a WTF moment streaming Tidal, the music dies, so torn all the DAC connections apart only to realize that dear ol' Verizon's DSL signal has laid an egg. I use the el-cheapo Airport Express routers which occasionally need re-booting after a power outage.
All that whining apart, I have found Tidal to be reliable and delivers redbook-grade signals. Right up there with a CD and much better than Pandora or satellite radio, that's for sure.

by j beede Fri May 05, 2017 2:43 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by j beede Fri May 05, 2017 2:43 pm

For $50 (used) on Amazon the Airport Express is a crazy and fun bargain. Your iPhone or iPad becomes a wireless Spotify jukebox perfect for discovering new (or old) artists/music or to test drive "records to die for" before reaching for your wallet. If you haven't tasted this mid-fi KoolAid why wouldn't you spend $50 for this capability?

Is it CD or LP or Tape Project quality? Of course not. This is not for serious listening, it is to try-before-you-buy the CD or LP or Tape Project tape ($$$)

by MarcVBelgium Fri May 05, 2017 3:47 pm

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by MarcVBelgium Fri May 05, 2017 3:47 pm

corndog71 wrote:I just had a conversation with my brother who listens to Spotify. He thought the speakers I got for him were sounding bad but it turned out it was the compression from Spotify. It's also recording dependent as some bands sound better than others. I enjoy technology but I'm in no hurry to start streaming. If I like something enough I'll buy the hard copy.

I use Spotify through a Cocktail Audio X-40 and it serves me (very) well for casual listening. Let's not forget that even on vinyl or CD the result is also depending on the recording that frequently suffers from the "loudness-war" and strong compression. Fine recordings seem only slightly compressed on Spotify. For intense listening I Always prefer vinyl or bluray, but Spotify is on for the rest of the day. Great to discover new music.
Also good to know that they are working on a hi-res service which should be up and running by the end of this year.

My internet is 200Mb/sec (measured and constant), so this may help to get fine quality. Also, overhere, we do not suffer any power surges or variations. 230V 24/7 ! This is a luxury..

by audiobill Sat May 06, 2017 6:47 am

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by audiobill Sat May 06, 2017 6:47 am

The Apple Airport Express has been tested by Stereophile as bit perfect, allowing cd quality streaming from your computer, smartphone or tablet. It contains a usable dac, which can easily be enhanced by an external dac if you wish, and costs $99. As Bluemeanies pointed out, Tidal provides 25 million tracks of 16/44 (CD resolution) music for $20 per month. 40% off that if you're a vet. Spotify, Pandora et al aren't in the same league at all, with 1/4 of Tidal's resolution at best (320kbps).

It's like having 2.5 million cds available at your home for $12 per month. I personally haven't bought a cd in years since using Tidal, sold my cd player years ago.

by bluemeanies Sat May 06, 2017 7:22 am

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by bluemeanies Sat May 06, 2017 7:22 am

Up early this Maestro? Working on those m125's? Haha

by cci1492 Sat May 06, 2017 11:53 am

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by cci1492 Sat May 06, 2017 11:53 am

I think my Yamaha already has this type of connectivity (is that the correct term?). I've been using it to connect from my iphone 5c (c=cheap) via air-play and blue tooth. I was under the impression air play was crap and there is a better way to connect. But to me it does sound pretty good. Amazon puts CDs that you purchase (as you all know) into their amazon music service, therefore you can compare the CD and the airplay. To me they sound pretty darn close. OK, thanks again.

by audiobill Sat May 06, 2017 12:41 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by audiobill Sat May 06, 2017 12:41 pm

Airplay is bit perfect to 16/44 (cd resolution). Doesn't do hi-res, but who cares?

by bluemeanies Sat May 06, 2017 8:33 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by bluemeanies Sat May 06, 2017 8:33 pm

How many people actually hear hi-res?

by deepee99 Tue May 16, 2017 4:15 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by deepee99 Tue May 16, 2017 4:15 pm

bluemeanies wrote:How many people actually hear hi-res?

What'd'ya say?

by corndog71 Tue May 16, 2017 4:35 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by corndog71 Tue May 16, 2017 4:35 pm

bluemeanies wrote:How many people actually hear hi-res?

I bought several albums from HD Tracks and they sound amazing.

by Peter W. Tue May 16, 2017 4:45 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by Peter W. Tue May 16, 2017 4:45 pm

bluemeanies wrote:How many people actually hear hi-res?

OK - I will bite!

It is not so much that one identifies Hi-Res as such. But, one definitely will identify when Hi-Res degrades to less-than. The analogy is a new pair of glasses or a new windshield in an older car. The micro-scratches as so minimally incremental that one does not notice the reduction of acuity. Directly audio - a 440 HZ sine wave compared to A over middle C on a piano.

So, I would suspect that anyone of good health without specific problems or pathology-caused hearing damage *will* hear Hi-Res.

by deepee99 Tue May 16, 2017 5:17 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by deepee99 Tue May 16, 2017 5:17 pm

Trust you guys understand I cannot resist being facetious from time to time.
Audiology is as black and arcane an art as, say, aerodynamics. Oh, to live in a linear world!
But we don't. Most of use in geezer-hood pretty much lose touch much above 4kHz. Four post-adolescent decades at gun ranges and in the cockpit -- the first two without any sort of hearing protection -- render me near the bottom of the frequency-sensitivity curve, no doubt. But as Peter analogises, there are those Inaudible and invisible nuances we don't notice until we actually see or hear them. Which is why a $5,000 (or more) tube system sounds better than a transistor radio, all scientific calculus notwithstanding. . .

by Dogstar Tue May 16, 2017 7:34 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by Dogstar Tue May 16, 2017 7:34 pm

A while back I was reading a thread about hearing and the highest frequency the thread contributors could hear. As I remember it there was a downloadable file that could be played that had a sampling of tones that went up to 20 KHz. There were a few that claimed they were able to hear frequencies that high. I can imagine these clowns playing the file through on their laptops and using cheap earbuds to test themselves. And obviously they were more qualified to be an audiophile because they could here 20 KHz.

I remember a long time ago JBL gave away 12 inch vinyl LP's that also had tones up to 20 KHz. I remember that after playing it the first time about all you could hear was a hiss.

by deepee99 Tue May 16, 2017 8:00 pm

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Re: More dumb streaming questions

by deepee99 Tue May 16, 2017 8:00 pm

Dogstar wrote:A while back I was reading a thread about hearing and the highest frequency the thread contributors could hear. As I remember it there was a downloadable file that could be played that had a sampling of tones that went up to 20 KHz. There were a few that claimed they were able to hear frequencies that high. I can imagine these clowns playing the file through on their laptops and using cheap earbuds to test themselves. And obviously they were more qualified to be an audiophile because they could here 20 KHz.

I remember a long time ago JBL gave away 12 inch vinyl LP's that also had tones up to 20 KHz. I remember that after playing it the first time about all you could hear was a hiss.

Bob Latino posted a hearing test awhile back on the Forum, IIRC. Maybe that should be a sticky.

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