Canadian company has acquired the "Dynaco" trade name ?

This one as well as Radial Engineering's version will never fly at those prices.



Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American Public.

H.L. Mencken. (attr.)

The actual quote - which I think is much better: “No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”

Carve a block of wood and hand it so someone 'for pay' and you might get a buck. Polish it nicely, cut a groove on one side, call it a "Cable Catenary" and you might get $40 or more.

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/blog/bamboo_cable_risers.htm

Need I point out that for that price, you could get a pair of M125 monoblocks, wired, and have about FOUR times the power?

give me $1500 and I'll build you a new VTA70 with integrated preamp, fully remote control, and auto-bias on all the tubes, and even that bright yellow paint !!!
Seriously, no joke . . .

meh!...an overpriced and underperforming (for its price) regurgitated ST70, trying to sell itself on the Dynaco name. Not to mention some of the negative points by Bob!
Seriously.....$3000.00 ???????

Rather too steep for me to buy.... But give them credit they have on the whole produced a good looking amplifier. I agree regarding the width and Bob's comments. Maybe the extra width was to allow for the cooling slots given the PCB construction.

After all there was a leader in a certain country that said size does matter fairly recently.

In the other post the yellow chassis is not for me. Who wants a custard coloured amplifier??

pichacker wrote:In the other post the yellow chassis is not for me. Who wants a custard coloured amplifier??

Perhaps with some green added to balance it out ? =]


https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=vintage&m=231323

Are the triode pairs in a single 12AU7's not closely matched enough for the task of accurate phase inversion in their mind and  is this why they are using two - or is there another benefit I am missing?

Roy wrote:Are the triode pairs in a single 12AU7's not closely matched enough for the task of accurate phase inversion in their mind and  is this why they are using two - or is there another benefit I am missing?

OK... I will bite on this one.

Consider the inherent difficulties of matching any given dual-element tube to any other given dual-element tube. Let's start with those in the 12A*7 family of dual-triodes.

Category A:

a) Match element-to-element within the tube. Then:
b) Find another dual-triode that matches the first one.

Category B:

Just find two tubes that may not match internally - but 1A will match to 2A & 1B will match to 2B.

Now, Category A: Figure one-in-5 tubes may match internally. Meaning it will take five groups of five (at least) to get a matched pair, or any 2 of 25 may yield a match. The other 23 *CANNOT BE MATCHED* as a Category A because they do not match internally.

Category B:

I would expect that matches are more readily made at this level, but still four times as difficult and time-consuming as a power-tube.

Then there is the aging issue, and natural drift.

Designing an amplifier that required matched small-signal tubes would be insane, and yield limited improvement, if any, in any case.

Anyone actually bought one of these things yet? I was looking for a google pic of the bottom of the chassis to see if that was open enough to allow all those cute extra slots on the top to actually work. Nada. Zilch. If they're looking for a chimney effect to cool the components, cool air has got to come from somewhere, eh.

PS - I was all ready to sue if the new production units looked anything like mine ... ;-}

Thnx Peterh and W. That got me to reading about some interesting things.
I see one dutch reseller of tubes having  balanced versions of the 12au7 on sale for a few € more.


Well   if nothing élse breaks this month, the next might see 45 pounds of puzzle heading our way =]

But to not let this thread stray too much lol - yes, this st70 reboot has some interesting sides to it but   being most of the way to a decent mc275 mk VI in price, and over some other offerings like those from Cayin with more power and more features - I wish them the best but   it just does not scream  buy me  at me.. The presentation also to me looks more at home in a studio than in a livingroom.

Oh yes I found that out when you remarked on those things in your previous comment I did some searching and found a nice page on the mkIII and others by someone who explained the circuits nicely.
There are quite a few people out there hosting some very interesting ( and way out of my depth ) books on the subject I found -   The Morgan Jones one is on my reader now ( page 396 and onward on this subject ) though am still looking for the Audio Cyclopedia book - seems to go for prices approaching a set of nos 12au7's from some British WWII airfield on Amazon =S

I can't comment about the sonics of the Radial / Dynaco amp, but I do know Radial Engineering as a company quite well. They are far from a fly-by-night operation, having being in ;business for something like 50 years. Their history is in Pro Audio and their products are highly respected in that field; some of their units are considered "must have" in the Pro recording, live performance and installation spaces.

They have been the Mogami distributor in Canada long before that line of cable was "discovered" by the audiophile crowd. They were the largest customer of Jensen Transformer (California) and when that company announced they would cease operation, they purchased the firm in a friendly transaction and injected (needed) cash into the operation, which as a result continues to manufacture that well respected transformer (line, 600ohm, moving coil cartridge, etc) line.

I very much doubt they would not have secured the necessary rights from the legal trademark and IP owner to resurrect the Dynaco brand, and I expect any legal challenges will be dealt with appropriately over time. I am not suggesting they are intending to resurrect the original Dynaco products and service, just that they are likely to offer a quality product should one come into the market. I do know they have also purchased the rights to the Haffler trade name from the OP owner and that the new products under that brand are real and can be purchased from resellers.

They are not a "high end audio" company; these lines are a new area of interest for them and I would expect it will take some time for them to develop a dealer network and to navigate the unique aspects of marketing in comparison to the music industry.

None the less they are likely to have performed due diligence and are in my opinion serious about entering this area of audio and I expect them to show appropriate respect for the history of the company. I don not expect their resurrection of the Dynaco trade name to affect the existing classic Dynaco businesses negatively; it may even be a benefit by putting the brand into the public eye to a greater extent than in the recent past.

In particular I think there will be a clear line of separation between any new Dynaco product and the classic components this site is concerned with. I don't see them as usurpers or someone who will cheapen the brand by milking the goodwill (unlike, say, the current owners of names like Bell & Howell, etc). I know these developments seem alarming to lovers of classic Dynaco products, but in my opinion I see no need for panic. As to the new amplifier they have announced, it is not really selling into the same market as the one this site's members are concerned with. Also I think it is worth mentioning that Radial manufactures all of it's products in North America (Vancouver BC or California).

Oh, and yes, this is my first post. But I didn't join to comment on this topic, I came across it while perusing the site as a new member.

PeterCapo wrote:

Johnny2Bad wrote:I can't comment about the sonics of the Radial / Dynaco amp, but I do know Radial Engineering as a company quite well...

In what capacity?  Customer?  Business associate?  Something else?

Just curious...

Customer (wholesale Mogami, retail Radial product owner), experience (Pro Audio production, recording, installation, guitar player). Their Direct Boxes are a studio/stage standard. Virtually everyone who plays guitar, keyboards; people like Eric Clapton to Metallica use their stuff. Reputation is based on ruggedness, reliability, and sonics. The curious can seek out reviews in the Pro Audio press (Guitar Player, Sound on Sound magazines, etc). Virtually the only complaint people have is they cost more than the Chinese built competition (Behringer, etc). If you are a Professional in that area, and you want the best, it's what you buy.

Put another way, they're the kind of company you would want to buy the brand, I'd take them even over someone like Harmon International, aside from possibly Harmon's ability to throw unlimited money at a project. Customer Service is solid and responsive. Before Marshall bought equity in Mogami they were the sole North American distributor. You literally cannot buy a CD or album or watch a TV production (all the networks, NFL Films, etc) that doesn't use Mogami cable somewhere in the chain.

With regard to price, all I would say is members of this forum are well aware of their options, choice is a good thing, and if Dynaco were selling in 2017 dollars with a full retail distribution chain (where a BoM would be about 20% of retail), it would be more than $3K for a new ST-70.

PeterCapo wrote:The point is well-taken, and I’d be willing to give the benefit of any doubt to the Radial Stereo 70, meaning I am sure it is a quality product. Fact still is, however, that Bob’s, Kevin’s and Frank’s Stereo 70s are about, what, half the price or less. I am skeptical that the Radial Stereo 70 would sound so much better as to justify the higher price, if it sounds "better" at all (again, I’m skeptical).

Perhaps the new Radial Stereo 70 would appeal more to a non-DIY, "boutique" crowd who might neither be aware of nor understand the other choices. In any case, if people want to spend $3,000 on it, it’s their decision. For me, I can spend some money on this stuff, but I’m not Jed Clampett or Thurston Howell. I’d rather pocket the savings and use it on something else.

Yes, and I don't think it's necessary to remind members of this forum one more time what options there are for original ST-70 and other Dynaco product.

It's an Apples-to-Oranges comparison in any case; the Radial product is a fully assembled retail packaged retail dealer network market amplifier. I fail to see any likelihood of direct competition.

Finally, although it's extremely common, I never understand why people complain about prices for products they have no intention of buying. It is both preaching to the converted, which is always pointless and never changes outcomes, and speaking to an audience that doesn't exist, as those who would consider such a purchase aren't among those such comments are likely to reach. I do understand the sentiment, but the effort is wasted.

The heritage of the company behind this Dynaco reboot does clarify the styling to me - it definately looks like studio not livingroom gear. My google bubble has been inserting adds for this thing into some sites this past week ^^ They should get some of these things out to some reviewers asap though eh..

PeterCapo wrote:

I must beg to differ.  As an open forum, anyone can share their personal views, even if similar views have already been expressed by others.  Having been around for a while in this and other forums, this seems to me neither uncommon nor inappropriate.

And, at the risk of issuing another reminder, direct comparison [as you mention] with the Radial Stereo 70 is certainly appropriate because Bob’s, Kevin’s and Frank’s Stereo 70s are also available fully assembled with plenty of support available from them and from experienced attenders of forums, most of which are very happy customers.

Finally, how can anyone reliably predict what anyone else may wish to purchase, or who might be in the audience?  My observation has been that there are regular attenders here, and in other forums, who are willing to consider adding to their stables.  Over time, it has also become clear enough to me that many others visit forums to look for advice from experience, and those with experience are willing to help.

Your opinion is noted (obviously).

I am not clear about what you are referring to in the first paragraph. I don't see where I claimed people should not express their personal views. I did opine that I believed every member here was well aware of the *facts* (Dynaco ST-70 and Dynaco ST-70III being different products from different vendors at different prices) and those facts did not require repeating. Please do continue to post your opinions, but the items I suggested we all are aware of, are facts, not opinions.

If there is any confusion, let me state it clearly here that expressions of opinion are clearly warranted. My first post was an opinion, and for that I find I'm asked to defend a company I have no interest in defending. All I tried (and failed, apparently) to do was to give the members here the background on Radial Engineering that I am aware of. Looks like doing so touched a nerve.

My only comment in reference to opinion (complaints about pricing) was that I don't understand why. Feel free to enlighten me on that point. I understand the need to rant, but
other than that ... Why?

I am not in possession of a crystal ball, and wouldn't be wasting my time in audio forums if I did own one*, but if there is a single member of this forum who intends to buy a Dynaco ST-70III speak up now. I doubt we will find any takers, but then again, there's that missing crystal ball. That is the audience I suggest isn't likely to hear complaints that amount to, in essence, a protest that a product actually exists.

I suppose, in a very liberal way, you could argue that direct comparisons to a product that is a re-engineered copy of a classic amplifier sold direct to the consumer versus one that is a new manufactured retail-to-consumer amplifier of different chassis, components, and topology, and one that few people amongst the subjectivists have actually heard (or seen, although the objectivists will complain we're not supposed to look), could be made.

I would rather not as I don't see how they are similar, let alone the same. Even an unrestored original Dynaco ST-70 is not the same as the product being offered from new parts by independent assemblers, but at least it's close. Perhaps I should complain that I can buy an original ST-70 on eBay for less than the newly minted fully assembled versions from the vendors this forum exists to support, but I still don't see the point of price complaints, regardless of whom is lesser and whom is greater, for products I won't be buying, so I won't.

But the greater problem is equating the two (ST-70 and ST-70III) in any way in the first place, which I refuse to do. They are two completely different ducks in my opinion. That they are somehow equivalent does not support the " ... Dynaco VTA tube amp kits, all Tubes4hifi.com products and all Dynakitparts.com products ..." as being unique products with unique benefits, it weakens it. So the prices are irrelevant.

* On the other hand, maybe I would have already made more money than any human can possibly spend, and would be spending my dotage on audio forums for classic tube gear.

May I call you Johnny,
Apparently Radial Engineering has gotten off to a rough start with the release of their new ST-70 amplifier. It should be no surprise that this amplifier would be compared to the current products mentioned here on this forum. In the absence of actually listening to this amplifier the only comparison one could make would be the sell price. I think we all agree that there is a monumental price difference compared to most all current ST-70 variants and regardless of how this product is marketed including the suggestion that David Hafler guided the designers at Radial Engineering from the grave...In the end...the consumer will decide the success of this product. John...what is your association with Radial Engineering?

Kevin Devaney

President

Dynakit, Inc

Whenever I see a 50% price drop at a local retailer typically the word “clearance” is attached.

LeGrace wrote:Whenever I see a 50% price drop at a local retailer typically the word “clearance” is attached.

Plus free shipping!

Where's Johnny now?
                               Looks as though he has gone silent. Ironically, this amplifier may become a collectible since I assume only a small number were ever produced. I did like the styling and particularly the top cover design. Maybe I will produce a short run of these covers if anyone would be interested?

Kevin