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The Dynaco Tube Audio Forum

Dedicated to the restoration and preservation of all original Dynaco tube audio equipment - Customer support for Tubes4hifi VTA tube amp and preamp kits and all Dynakitparts.com products


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rjpjnk
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29 posters

    Canadian company has acquired the "Dynaco" trade name ?

    Peter W.
    Peter W.


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    Post by Peter W. Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:51 am

    "We also wanted the ST-70 Series 3 to be relatively affordable. As soon as we announced the price, the first reaction from the audiophile community was that it was not expensive enough."

    Uh, OK. Not to pile on, or any such thing, but this is a perfect example of the "only so much" theory.

    There is only so much stuff that one may put in a box that is only so big. And that stuff is going to cost only so much. Add a reasonable profit and a reasonable recovery of development costs, and then one is gouging.

    "At 35 watts a channel, will the ST-70 be loud enough?
    Tubes are much louder than their solid-state counterparts. For comparison, a 50 watt Marshall guitar amplifier can be ear-piercing loud when played at full. The ST-70 actually produces 70 watts RMS and if coupled with a pair of efficient speakers, will deliver sufficient output to replicate the feel of a live concert. You will wake the neighbours!"

    Oh MY!!
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    wildiowa


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    Post by wildiowa Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:30 am

    In discussing pricing I find the latest fitness rage...Peloton...to be interesting. Apparently they were not selling well in the $1500 range as urban grass eaters and hipsters thought they could not possibly be that good costing so "little." Corporate execs and marketers then implemented a strategy that doubled or tripled the price of literally the same unit and sales exploded. Its weird how people view value. Some new audio stuff is just crazy priced. And Harleys. And hearing aids. My kids have Pelotons in NYC. They will be gathering dust soon, along with other fads in the past...Bowflex? Here on the farm I get out the chainsaw and cut brush or walk beans. The actual cost of components just does not seem to have any bearing on pricing..whatever they can get!
    Bob Latino
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    Post by Bob Latino Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:27 pm

    Strange that Rutherford Audio in Canada as of today (12/4/18) still has the amp for sale at the original $2999.99 USD list price? See link below ..

    Dynaco ST-70X still selling at list price at Rutherford Audio

    I notice on this web page that there are no customer reviews of the amp? Of course in order to have a customer review, you must first have a customer - lol ..

    Bob
    Peter W.
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    Post by Peter W. Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:54 pm

    Bob Latino wrote:Strange that Rutherford Audio in Canada as of today (12/4/18) still has the amp for sale at the original $2999.99 USD list price? See link below ..

    Dynaco ST-70X still selling at list price at Rutherford Audio

    I notice on this web page that there are no customer reviews of the amp? Of course in order to have a customer review, you must first have a customer - lol ..

    Bob

    Hope springs eternal....
    Bob Latino
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    Post by Bob Latino Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:10 am

    I did have a reply on the VTA amp kits Facebook page about someone who purchased a Radial Engineering Dynaco ST-70X. Apparently the amp lasted for 6 weeks after purchase and then quit working. He Emailed Radial about the problem yesterday - 1/24/19 and has yet to hear from them. See his exact post on the VTA amp Facebook page below.

    "Jules Lefrançois Well, I purchased one at half price, taxes in with free shipping. Lovely sound and looks great. Unfortunately, .....my amp died 6 weeks later: all high bias lights are out. Waiting for Radial eng. to get back to me with regards to service. Hopefully it is something easy to resolve, a fuse maybe?"

    I will post here again after Radial gets back to him.

    Bob
    Bob Latino
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    Post by Bob Latino Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:30 pm

    One other thing ...

    This amp was touted to have a "matching Dynaco ST-1 preamp" to go along with the amp ...  See photo below ..

    Canadian company has acquired the "Dynaco" trade name ? - Page 3 Dynaco-ST-1-composite

    This preamp turned out to be "vaporware" and evidently never saw the light of day. At the link below about 1/2 way down the page, they show the Dynaco ST-70X on the left side of the page and there WAS a photo of the Dynaco ST-1 preamplifier on the right side of the page. That right side photo was pulled late last year. My feeling is that the preamp never went into production.

    http://dynaco.com/index#products

    Bob
    cci1492
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    Post by cci1492 Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:42 pm

    I emailed them about that pre-amp when I was shopping around for one and they never got back to me.
    Peter W.
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    Post by Peter W. Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:53 pm

    Interesting to note the DIP switches on the pre-amp.

    https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GCEU_enUS821US821&ei=1T1LXNvnDc-ctAWrgL2wCA&q=dynaco+pat-5+bi-fet+manual&oq=dynaco+pat-5+bi-fet+manual&gs_l=psy-ab.3...4246.6475..6797...1.0..0.123.715.6j2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i22i30j33i160.bvokLdY_Q4s

    I am going to guess that the serve about the same function as the information on pages 28 & 28 of the PAT-5 BiFet manual.

    Thoughts?
    sKiZo
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    Post by sKiZo Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:11 pm

    If having the "BUY IT NOW" button not working is a clue, yall done missed yer chance to pick up on one of the amps ... If that's not enough for ya, it no longer appears in their product listing or online catalog.

    I take this as fairly conclusive proof of the status of the item ...

    Canadian company has acquired the "Dynaco" trade name ? - Page 3 F6c
    Roy Mottram
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    Post by Roy Mottram Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:59 pm

    here's a better amp at a better price, less the fancy top hat . . .
    VTA ST70 $1275 + shipping WIRED with ALL tubes & EL34 output tubes
    http://tubes4hifi.com/bob.htm#ST70
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    Guest
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    Post by Guest Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:18 pm

    I think this product will be a historical footnote soon enough. I only jumped into the fray on TAS because his outlandish claims and false statements about moving the design forward irked my sense of journalistic integrity.
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    ltusler


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    Post by ltusler Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:54 pm

    Bob Latino
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    Post by Bob Latino Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:15 am

    Well the Dynaco ST-70X is not selling for $1499 anymore at the link below ..

    Dynaco ST-70X

    I have a feeling that they sold out on all the units that they had and will not be offering these amps anymore. So we have a situation in which they found they could not sell the amps at their original introductory price of $2999.99 and then they could not make a profit on the amp selling it at $1499 (with free shipping also !!) SO - probably the amp will sink into oblivion. I will leave this thread open and check once a month or so. Maybe I am wrong ? Maybe they just temporarily ran out of stock ? We will see ..

    Bob
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    Post by Guest Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:08 am

    Bob Latino
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    Post by Bob Latino Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:04 pm

    Yup ... They are back up to selling the Dynaco ST-70X amp for $2999.99 (with free shipping) at the link that jsl1234 provided. One of the reviews has provided an inside look at the wiring. See photo below. Basically the entire amp is all on one board which is 14.5 inches wide by 5 inches deep. They buy the board with everything attached, install the board and wire up the board to the front and rear connection sites. Yes - maybe the board is wired into the chassis connection sites in Canada but I am pretty sure that the board is of Chinese origin. I don't like the fact that they use those "push-on" connectors. Those connections IMHO should be ALL solder connections. They are using the push on connections to save assembly time. Over time those connections can come loose.

    Bob


    Canadian company has acquired the "Dynaco" trade name ? - Page 3 ST-70-X-wiring
    peterh
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    Post by peterh Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:48 pm

    I do not think "push connectors" are that bad. They will ( if properly done) have a reliable connection
    and in addition you will avoid bad solders that many seems to have problem with. It also enables
    easy "change" of complete board if, and if all connections are "push connectors". The above
    shows at lest a few soldered wires :-(

    I do however object to mounting power tubes on a circuit board. Heat and physical violence
    associated with insertion and removal of power tubes will affect the tubesockets with lethal
    effects. This won't be better as times goes. No, tube sockets are best mounted separate and
    connected with short wires. ( that includes preamp tubes also, to a lesser extent)

    The above boards looks like it has been soldered by "flow", that implies problems with soldering
    more massive objects, the balance between full solder flow on heave objects and not too much
    heat on the lighter objects is difficult. They might excel in this, but who will take a $2999 chance ?
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    rjpjnk


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    Post by rjpjnk Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:27 pm

    It is true the tube sockets are soldered to the PC board, but the power tube sockets have a few large metal braces soldered as well to provide additional support. Not as secure as bolting to the chassis of course, but at least it's not just the 8 pins holding them on.
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    rjpjnk


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    Canadian company has acquired the "Dynaco" trade name ? - Page 3 Empty Dynaco ST-70 Series 3 Inside Pics

    Post by rjpjnk Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:44 pm

    Deleted the pics.
    I thought it best to keep the focus on Bob and Roy's excellent products here. We can start an "Inside the new ST-70 thread" somewhere else.


    Last edited by rjpjnk on Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    rjpjnk


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    Post by rjpjnk Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:11 am

    I noticed there is a brand stamped on the tube sockets (Belton) so I looked them up online.
    The octal sockets used appear to be Model VT8-PTL-01 on this page. They seem to be a decent quality part. I can tell you the tubes insert and pull out with a nice feel and don't require excessive force or rocking, so that's good anyway.

    http://www.belton.co.kr/product/product.html?code=007
    peterh
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    Post by peterh Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:38 am

    rjpjnk wrote:I noticed there is a brand stamped on the tube sockets (Belton) so I looked them up online.
    The octal sockets used appear to be Model VT8-PTL-01 on this page. They seem to be a decent quality part. I can tell you the tubes insert and pull out with a nice feel and don't require excessive force or rocking, so that's good anyway.

    http://www.belton.co.kr/product/product.html?code=007
    Again, the forces appied at tube insertion and removal should, in my opinion,
    be taken by the sockets themself, not by the leadless solder whos mechanical
    properties does not include physical ruggidness.
    This does not make the amp useless, it only makes MTBF less.
    cci1492
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    Post by cci1492 Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:34 am

    I wouldn't buy that.
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    rjpjnk


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    Post by rjpjnk Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:47 am

    peterh wrote:
    rjpjnk wrote:I noticed there is a brand stamped on the tube sockets (Belton) so I looked them up online.
    The octal sockets used appear to be Model VT8-PTL-01 on this page. They seem to be a decent quality part. I can tell you the tubes insert and pull out with a nice feel and don't require excessive force or rocking, so that's good anyway.

    http://www.belton.co.kr/product/product.html?code=007
    Again, the forces appied at tube insertion and removal should, in my opinion,
    be taken by the sockets themself, not by the leadless solder whos mechanical
    properties does not include physical ruggidness.
    This does not make the amp useless, it only makes MTBF less.

    I agree. Using chassis mount sockets with wires would also be better for thermal reasons. Pretty dumb idea in my opinion to solder hot output tubes to the PC board.
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    mijohn


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    Post by mijohn Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:37 pm

    rjpjnk wrote:
    peterh wrote:
    rjpjnk wrote:I noticed there is a brand stamped on the tube sockets (Belton) so I looked them up online.
    The octal sockets used appear to be Model VT8-PTL-01 on this page. They seem to be a decent quality part. I can tell you the tubes insert and pull out with a nice feel and don't require excessive force or rocking, so that's good anyway.

    http://www.belton.co.kr/product/product.html?code=007
    Again, the forces appied at tube insertion and removal should, in my opinion,
    be taken by the sockets themself, not by the leadless solder whos mechanical
    properties does not include physical ruggidness.
    This does not make the amp useless, it only makes MTBF less.

    I agree. Using chassis mount sockets with wires would also be better for thermal reasons. Pretty dumb idea in my opinion to solder hot output tubes to the PC board.
    I don't think Audio Research would agree with you. They mount their tubes on the PCB in many of their power amps and they produce some of the best tube amps in the world.

    https://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-research-reference-150-power-amplifier
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    rjpjnk


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    Post by rjpjnk Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:16 pm

    mijohn wrote:
    rjpjnk wrote:
    peterh wrote:
    rjpjnk wrote:I noticed there is a brand stamped on the tube sockets (Belton) so I looked them up online.
    The octal sockets used appear to be Model VT8-PTL-01 on this page. They seem to be a decent quality part. I can tell you the tubes insert and pull out with a nice feel and don't require excessive force or rocking, so that's good anyway.

    http://www.belton.co.kr/product/product.html?code=007
    Again, the forces appied at tube insertion and removal should, in my opinion,
    be taken by the sockets themself, not by the leadless solder whos mechanical
    properties does not include physical ruggidness.
    This does not make the amp useless, it only makes MTBF less.

    I agree. Using chassis mount sockets with wires would also be better for thermal reasons. Pretty dumb idea in my opinion to solder hot output tubes to the PC board.
    I don't think Audio Research would agree with you. They mount their tubes on the PCB in many of their power amps and they produce some of the best tube amps in the world.

    https://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-research-reference-150-power-amplifier

    Wow, look at that. They look like the same kind of sockets, and sporting even bigger power tubes. I guess it is okay after all if done right. Thanks for this reference.
    corndog71
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    Post by corndog71 Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:58 pm

    mijohn wrote:
    I don't think Audio Research would agree with you. They mount their tubes on the PCB in many of their power amps and they produce some of the best tube amps in the world.

    https://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-research-reference-150-power-amplifier

    I’ve heard from people who have dealt with them. Power tube sockets on pcb’s are a bad idea.

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