Comprehensive tube list???

I'm relatively new to this whole Tube Rolling thing. Has anyone put together a comprehensive list of what tubes can be used in what position on the VTA St120?

And a list of where folks are sourcing tubes?

Thanks

Driver tubes:

12AU7/12AU7A - The only difference between the 12AU7 and the 12AU7A is the "A" version can be used in series string filament circuits due to it's controlled warm-up   cathode.  Otherwise, there is no difference. The early RCA version has ribbed flat black plates with a top getter and a white label. This is an amazing tube, one of the best USA 12AU7 tubes ever made. The RCA "cleartops": 1960s versions that have greyplates and the getter on the side, making the top clear. Some 12AU7s are a little tinny in comparison to the 12BH7 and 6CG7, but there are exceptions, such as RCA clear tops and 5963 tubes!

6189 and 5814 - Both of these are "milspec" versions of the 12AU7.  They may also be marked with 12AU7WA.  They both have thick mica wafers which give the tube extra rigidity which minimizes any microphonic problems.  Their cathodes have been specially designed so they can withstand many on/off cycles and long periods in cut-off without any degradation of performance.  The 5814 has a slightly higher filament current demand than the 6189/12AU7.  Some (not all) Sylvania Gold Brand versions of these tubes have gold plated pins.  5814: Sometimes the vintage GE versions may be labelled JG-12AU7WA in white and have 5814 etched into the glass. These are all low microphonic thanks to their rigid mica supports. Older versions have a third mica spacer near the top. These "triple mica" versions are in great demand today. The broadcast versions of this tube are the GE 5-star, and the RCA Command series. These tubes can withstand many on-off cycles and mechanical shock without a problem. 6189: This can be both a military spec tube and a premium industrial tube. Often, the military versions will be marked 12AU7WA in addition to having 6189 etched in the glass. The older vintage of these tubes are usually black plate with the extra "triple mica" spacer at the top. GE made this in their 5-star line for broadcast. The RCA military 6189 is gold lettered 12AU7WA, has black plates, and extra support rods. These are excellent step up tubes in the 12AU7 family, when you can find them! Look for super rare triple mica versions from Mazda, Siemens, and Mullard, some with silver plates. Among the best 12AU7 tubes ever made.

5963 - This tube makes an excellent substitute for the 12AU7 as the characteristics are almost the same.  The 5963 has a slightly lower plate voltage rating compared to regular 12AU7.  The 5963 has a max plate voltage of 250V while 12AU7 has a max of 330V. This tube has a specially designed cathode which can withstand long periods of time in cut-off without hurting the tube. This is a nice industrial type which is nearly identical to the standard 12AU7. RCA made a nice black plate version of this tube, Sylvania has a gold pin version, and GE has it in their 5-star broadcast line. The plate voltage rating is a little lower than for a 12AU7, but for most applications, it will work fine. It has a rugged cathode and should be long lived, similar to the 5814.

7730 -  This is a premium version of the 12AU7 made only by CBS/Hytron.  This tube has very low noise characteristics and heavily plated gold pins.  These were intended for critical test instrument applications, but due to their superior low noise performance, these make excellent choices for audio applications. An excellent USA made industrial version of the 12AU7, produced mainly by CBS labs but  with other labels as well. This tube has thickly plated gold pins and was designed for critical uses in avionics and other exacting industrial applications. It has a long life heater, is extremely well balanced and a top choice for audio use. Very rare today.

6680 - This is the mobile communications version of the 12AU7 which can withstand +/- 20 % variations in filament voltages without any degradation of tube performance. Better suited for the inverter positions and not the center tube. Motorola and GE are the brands you find most often with this tube, but RCA made a nice cleartop version for a very short time. It is identical to the 12AU7, but has the added benefit of being able to withstand variations in filament voltage without affecting it's output. This tube was designed originally for two-way mobile radio use. It makes a fine hi-fi 12AU7 tube as well. Never as plentiful as other types, this tube is rather scarce today.

7316 - This is an Amperex tube that was a premium grade 12AU7. Come with both square getter and halo getter. The former is considered better. Rare and PRICEY. Simply an amazing tube. Amazing both because it sounds so incredibly good, and amazing how rare it is today. The 7316 was made by Amperex in Holland. It is a medical grade/aircraft equipment grade super low noise tube. It is Amperex's answer to the ECC802S produced by Telefunken, and the 10M series made by Mullard. Most have the Bugle Boy on the label, although some are plain Amperex labels, and OEM labels such as Beckman Instruments. The 1950s vintage with the long plates and D-getters are to die for. They are among the best sounding and rarest 12AU7 around today. Don't miss the 1960s halo getter version of this tube, as well. They sound nearly as good as the D-getters and are usually half the price.



I forgot to include the 12BH7/12BH7A: (FOR THE CENTER DRIVER TUNE ONLY)
This tube was known simply as a favorite driver for tube amps as an inexpensive alternative to the 12AU7.
The 12BH7 tube has a deeper sound stage with better separation and a lot more musical body then most 12AU7's.
The 12BH7 requires no circuit modification to substitute for a 12AU7.

I find that the 12BH7A tubes from the late 50's with shiny black plates and horseshoe getter are the best. I am currently running a 1957 Tung-Sol. I found it a tad 'sweeter' in the highs than an RCA with dark grey plates and halo getter. I have picked up an older RCA with shiny black plates and dimpled foil getter but have not done any serious comparison yet.

As for sources for tubes there are a few sellers on eBay that can be trusted. Always look for someone with lots of transactions and 100% rating, testing data AND someone who will take returns; some offer free returns. Stay away from the overseas sellers. I've had good luck with desireme1979, vivatubes, heavenly tubes, retrodave12, bobvcs. I typically only buy black plate tubes from the 50s. I find that all the new production tubes do NOT sound toobie. I also have a tube tester and can check data.

This is fantastic....Thanks for doing this. Moderator should make it a sticky....

I have an SP12 and am currently running  1950s GE 5963 tubes w/ shiny black plates and foil getter in the V1 position and some later production (probably mid 1970s) GE 5963 in the V2 position. VERY sweet sounding.

DavidR wrote:Driver tubes:

12AU7/12AU7A - The only difference between the 12AU7 and the 12AU7A is the "A" version can be used in series string filament circuits due to it's controlled warm-up   cathode.  Otherwise, there is no difference. The early RCA version has ribbed flat black plates with a top getter and a white label. This is an amazing tube, one of the best USA 12AU7 tubes ever made. The RCA "cleartops": 1960s versions that have greyplates and the getter on the side, making the top clear.

6189 and 5814 - Both of these are "milspec" versions of the 12AU7.  They may also be marked with 12AU7WA.  They both have thick mica wafers which give the tube extra rigidity which minimizes any microphonic problems.  Their cathodes have been specially designed so they can withstand many on/off cycles and long periods in cut-off without any degradation of performance.  The 5814 has a slightly higher filament current demand than the 6189/12AU7.  Some (not all) Sylvania Gold Brand versions of these tubes have gold plated pins.  5814: Sometimes the vintage GE versions may be labelled JG-12AU7WA in white and have 5814 etched into the glass. These are all low microphonic thanks to their rigid mica supports. Older versions have a third mica spacer near the top. These "triple mica" versions are in great demand today. The broadcast versions of this tube are the GE 5-star, and the RCA Command series. These tubes can withstand many on-off cycles and mechanical shock without a problem. 6189: This can be both a military spec tube and a premium industrial tube. Often, the military versions will be marked 12AU7WA in addition to having 6189 etched in the glass. The older vintage of these tubes are usually black plate with the extra "triple mica" spacer at the top. GE made this in their 5-star line for broadcast. The RCA military 6189 is gold lettered 12AU7WA, has black plates, and extra support rods. These are excellent step up tubes in the 12AU7 family, when you can find them! Look for super rare triple mica versions from Mazda, Siemens, and Mullard, some with silver plates. Among the best 12AU7 tubes ever made.

5963 - This tube makes a decent substitute for the 12AU7 as the characteristics are almost the same.  The 5963 has a slightly lower plate voltage rating compared to regular 12AU7.  The 5963 has a max plate voltage of 250V while 12AU7 has a max of 330V. This tube has a specially designed cathode which can withstand long periods of time in cut-off without hurting the tube. This is a nice industrial type which is nearly identical to the standard 12AU7. RCA made a nice black plate version of this tube, Sylvania has a gold pin version, and GE has it in their 5-star broadcast line. The plate voltage rating is a little lower than for a 12AU7, but for most applications, it will work fine. It has a rugged cathode and should be long lived, similar to the 5814.

7730 -  This is a premium version of the 12AU7 made only by CBS/Hytron.  This tube has very low noise characteristics and heavily plated gold pins.  These were intended for critical test instrument applications, but due to their superior low noise performance, these make excellent choices for audio applications. An excellent USA made industrial version of the 12AU7, produced mainly by CBS labs but  with other labels as well. This tube has thickly plated gold pins and was designed for critical uses in avionics and other exacting industrial applications. It has a long life heater, is extremely well balanced and a top choice for audio use. Very rare today.

6680 - This is the mobile communications version of the 12AU7 which can withstand +/- 20 % variations in filament voltages without any degradation of tube performance. Better suited for the inverter positions and not the center tube. Motorola and GE are the brands you find most often with this tube, but RCA made a nice cleartop version for a very short time. It is identical to the 12AU7, but has the added benefit of being able to withstand variations in filament voltage without affecting it's output. This tube was designed originally for two-way mobile radio use. It makes a fine hi-fi 12AU7 tube as well. Never as plentiful as other types, this tube is rather scarce today.

7316 - This is an Amperex tube that was a premium grade 12AU7. Come with both square getter and halo getter. The former is considered better. Rare and PRICEY. Simply an amazing tube. Amazing both because it sounds so incredibly good, and amazing how rare it is today. The 7316 was made by Amperex in Holland. It is a medical grade/aircraft equipment grade super low noise tube. It is Amperex's answer to the ECC802S produced by Telefunken, and the 10M series made by Mullard. Most have the Bugle Boy on the label, although some are plain Amperex labels, and OEM labels such as Beckman Instruments. The 1950s vintage with the long plates and D-getters are to die for. They are among the best sounding and rarest 12AU7 around today. Don't miss the 1960s halo getter version of this tube, as well. They sound nearly as good as the D-getters and are usually half the price.



I forgot to include the 12BH7/12BH7A: (FOR THE CENTER DRIVER TUNE ONLY)
This tube was known simply as a favorite driver for tube amps as an inexpensive alternative to the 12AU7.
The 12BH7 tube has a deeper sound stage with better separation and a lot more musical body then most 12AU7's.
The 12BH7 requires no circuit modification to substitute for a 12AU7.

I find that the 12BH7A tubes from the late 50's with shiny black plates and horseshoe getter are the best. I am currently running a 1957 Tung-Sol. I found it a tad 'sweeter' in the highs than an RCA with dark grey plates and halo getter. I have picked up an older RCA with shiny black plates and dimpled foil getter but have not done any serious comparison yet.

Nice..... you've done your homework DavidR

Tom Pickett wrote:
Nice..... you've done your homework DavidR

I have an addition issue ..................

Here's a comment from Joe S on 12AU7 tubes and their variants:

"I've been through the mill on this tube type over the past year and tried the following tube types:
• RCA 1960s top getters gray plates
• RCA 50's top getters black plates
• RCA '60s clear tops
• RCA black plate 5814A
• GE grey plates
• Sylvania grey plates
• Sylvania '50s black plates
• Sylvania '50s limited production black plates
• RFT (German)
• Valvo
• Mullard ribbed plate
• Mullard box plate CV4003
• Brimar
• Amperex Holland Orange globe logos
• Amperex Holland Bugleboys
• Amperex Holland 7316 (instrument grade)
• Tesla
• Telefunken smooth plate
• Phillips
• Tung Sol 6189 / 12AU7WA
• Raytheon


Now frankly, most of these are competent at best and not really anything special - in fact I would say this is a fairly unexceptional tube family with just a few high points. In my system the only tubes of merit broke out something like this:
Best of the lot
•  Amperex Bugleboy 12AU7 Holland
•  Amperex 12AU7 Holland (no bugleboy logo, later production)
•  RCA Clear top (side getter) 12AU7
•  RFT 12AU7
Best of the rest:
•  Mullard CV4003 box plate "

I have the RCA clear top, RFT 12AU7A and the Mullard in my stash. I'll get to them some day.

Tube source; Jim McShane. Find him @ McShane designs. Jim sells quality stuff and has grate advice. Also a member here. Dale

DavidR wrote:Driver tubes:

12AU7/12AU7A - The only difference between the 12AU7 and the 12AU7A is the "A" version can be used in series string filament circuits due to it's controlled warm-up   cathode.  Otherwise, there is no difference. The early RCA version has ribbed flat black plates with a top getter and a white label. This is an amazing tube, one of the best USA 12AU7 tubes ever made. The RCA "cleartops": 1960s versions that have greyplates and the getter on the side, making the top clear. Some 12AU7s are a little tinny in comparison to the 12BH7 and 6CG7, but there are exceptions, such as RCA clear tops and 5963 tubes!

6189 and 5814 - Both of these are "milspec" versions of the 12AU7.  They may also be marked with 12AU7WA.  They both have thick mica wafers which give the tube extra rigidity which minimizes any microphonic problems.  Their cathodes have been specially designed so they can withstand many on/off cycles and long periods in cut-off without any degradation of performance.  The 5814 has a slightly higher filament current demand than the 6189/12AU7.  Some (not all) Sylvania Gold Brand versions of these tubes have gold plated pins.  5814: Sometimes the vintage GE versions may be labelled JG-12AU7WA in white and have 5814 etched into the glass. These are all low microphonic thanks to their rigid mica supports. Older versions have a third mica spacer near the top. These "triple mica" versions are in great demand today. The broadcast versions of this tube are the GE 5-star, and the RCA Command series. These tubes can withstand many on-off cycles and mechanical shock without a problem. 6189: This can be both a military spec tube and a premium industrial tube. Often, the military versions will be marked 12AU7WA in addition to having 6189 etched in the glass. The older vintage of these tubes are usually black plate with the extra "triple mica" spacer at the top. GE made this in their 5-star line for broadcast. The RCA military 6189 is gold lettered 12AU7WA, has black plates, and extra support rods. These are excellent step up tubes in the 12AU7 family, when you can find them! Look for super rare triple mica versions from Mazda, Siemens, and Mullard, some with silver plates. Among the best 12AU7 tubes ever made.

5963 - This tube makes an excellent substitute for the 12AU7 as the characteristics are almost the same.  The 5963 has a slightly lower plate voltage rating compared to regular 12AU7.  The 5963 has a max plate voltage of 250V while 12AU7 has a max of 330V. This tube has a specially designed cathode which can withstand long periods of time in cut-off without hurting the tube. This is a nice industrial type which is nearly identical to the standard 12AU7. RCA made a nice black plate version of this tube, Sylvania has a gold pin version, and GE has it in their 5-star broadcast line. The plate voltage rating is a little lower than for a 12AU7, but for most applications, it will work fine. It has a rugged cathode and should be long lived, similar to the 5814.

7730 -  This is a premium version of the 12AU7 made only by CBS/Hytron.  This tube has very low noise characteristics and heavily plated gold pins.  These were intended for critical test instrument applications, but due to their superior low noise performance, these make excellent choices for audio applications. An excellent USA made industrial version of the 12AU7, produced mainly by CBS labs but  with other labels as well. This tube has thickly plated gold pins and was designed for critical uses in avionics and other exacting industrial applications. It has a long life heater, is extremely well balanced and a top choice for audio use. Very rare today.

6680 - This is the mobile communications version of the 12AU7 which can withstand +/- 20 % variations in filament voltages without any degradation of tube performance. Better suited for the inverter positions and not the center tube. Motorola and GE are the brands you find most often with this tube, but RCA made a nice cleartop version for a very short time. It is identical to the 12AU7, but has the added benefit of being able to withstand variations in filament voltage without affecting it's output. This tube was designed originally for two-way mobile radio use. It makes a fine hi-fi 12AU7 tube as well. Never as plentiful as other types, this tube is rather scarce today.

7316 - This is an Amperex tube that was a premium grade 12AU7. Come with both square getter and halo getter. The former is considered better. Rare and PRICEY. Simply an amazing tube. Amazing both because it sounds so incredibly good, and amazing how rare it is today. The 7316 was made by Amperex in Holland. It is a medical grade/aircraft equipment grade super low noise tube. It is Amperex's answer to the ECC802S produced by Telefunken, and the 10M series made by Mullard. Most have the Bugle Boy on the label, although some are plain Amperex labels, and OEM labels such as Beckman Instruments. The 1950s vintage with the long plates and D-getters are to die for. They are among the best sounding and rarest 12AU7 around today. Don't miss the 1960s halo getter version of this tube, as well. They sound nearly as good as the D-getters and are usually half the price.



I forgot to include the 12BH7/12BH7A: (FOR THE CENTER DRIVER TUNE ONLY)
This tube was known simply as a favorite driver for tube amps as an inexpensive alternative to the 12AU7.
The 12BH7 tube has a deeper sound stage with better separation and a lot more musical body then most 12AU7's.
The 12BH7 requires no circuit modification to substitute for a 12AU7.

I find that the 12BH7A tubes from the late 50's with shiny black plates and horseshoe getter are the best. I am currently running a 1957 Tung-Sol. I found it a tad 'sweeter' in the highs than an RCA with dark grey plates and halo getter. I have picked up an older RCA with shiny black plates and dimpled foil getter but have not done any serious comparison yet.

Thank you for this!
This list has been absolute gold for me this past month. I only registered to let you know this.