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    VTA-ST120: variac fuse blows when the TDR switches on the "power circuits".

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    alexbramford


    Posts : 16
    Join date : 2021-03-07
    Age : 56

    VTA-ST120: variac fuse blows when the TDR switches on the "power circuits". Empty VTA-ST120: variac fuse blows when the TDR switches on the "power circuits".

    Post by alexbramford Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:05 pm

    The variac fuse blows when the TDR switches on the "power circuits".
    This is likely a cascading failure from the brown-out I mentioned in my previous post

    What must I measure to confirm if the power transformer is destroyed?
    What else should I be looking for?

    Timeline:
    • Saturday 10/14 : replaced the quad cap and had use of my amplifier for 48 hours.
    • Monday 10/16 : there was a crackling sound and driver tubes and power tubes were no longer lit up.
    • The fuse on the variac had blown.
    • Fuse on the ST-120 had not blown.


    Per the test sequence in the "Initial Startup" in the construction manual:

    2) Test of the driver board, no rectifier or power tubes, is successful: the 3 x 12AU7 tubes light up, and remain on through the switch-on of the Time Delay Relay (TDR)
    3) Test of the power tubes fails on both sides:

       Install rectifier
       Install 2 x 6550 tubes (LEFT SIDE)
       Turn on amplifier
       Driver board turns on: 3 x 12AU7 tubes remain lit for 17 seconds
       TDR switches on
       Variac fuse blows
       Fuse on the ST-120 did not blow
       Driver board turns off: 3 x 12AU7 tubes turn off


       Install rectifier
       Install 2 x 6550 tubes (RIGHT SIDE)
       Turn on amplifier
       Driver board turns on: 3 x 12AU7 tubes remain lit for 17 seconds
       TDR switches on
       Variac fuse blows
       Fuse on the ST-120 did not blow
       Driver board turns off: 3 x 12AU7 tubes turn off

    First time this happened, the power transformer was hot to the touch, at "usual" temperature; outut transformers were stone cold.

    Configuration:
    4 x 6550, or 4 x JJ KT88
    3 x 12AU7

    Brand new quad cap
    Solid state rectifiers under test:
    WZ68 Copper Cap
    Dynaco VTA ST 70 120 Mono Block Tube Amp Rectifier Kit

    All four bias resistors intact at 10 ohms
    4.7K ohm 3 watt resistor between 20 MFd and 30 Mfs lugs is brown on 20 MFd end, but still measures 4.7k ohm
    Roy Mottram
    Roy Mottram
    Admin


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    VTA-ST120: variac fuse blows when the TDR switches on the "power circuits". Empty Re: VTA-ST120: variac fuse blows when the TDR switches on the "power circuits".

    Post by Roy Mottram Sat Oct 21, 2023 9:51 pm

    the power transformer should never run hot.
    Check your quad cap, it's probably bad, and will burn out rectifier tubes and blow fuses.
    Make sure once you get a good quad cap and rectifier in there to adjust the bias correctly.
    A better way to use the TDR is not to connect the B+ thru the relay, but to connect the 5v supply to the rectifier tube thru the relay.
    If you do that, you can change the timing resistor to about 10-15 seconds instead of 15-20 second which is standard
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    alexbramford


    Posts : 16
    Join date : 2021-03-07
    Age : 56

    VTA-ST120: variac fuse blows when the TDR switches on the "power circuits". Empty Re: VTA-ST120: variac fuse blows when the TDR switches on the "power circuits".

    Post by alexbramford Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:29 am

    Out of interest, what are some of the issues that would cause the power transformer to run hot?
    Bob Latino
    Bob Latino
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    Location : Massachusetts

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    Post by Bob Latino Mon Oct 23, 2023 8:29 am

    alexbramford wrote:Out of interest, what are some of the issues that would cause the power transformer to run hot?

    Power transformers do run pretty warm especially if (1) the amp has been on for a period of hours. (2) your inside home temperature is 70 degrees or higher (3) you are playing the amp at high volume levels. Check out the forum link below from May of 2011 where I checked the temperature of various areas of a VTA ST-120 with an infrared thermometer.

    Temperature of various areas of a VTA ST-120 amp

    Bob
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    alexbramford


    Posts : 16
    Join date : 2021-03-07
    Age : 56

    VTA-ST120: variac fuse blows when the TDR switches on the "power circuits". Empty Re: VTA-ST120: variac fuse blows when the TDR switches on the "power circuits".

    Post by alexbramford Wed Nov 01, 2023 8:26 pm

    An update: my VTA-ST120 am is back up and running again.

    First failure:
    Electricity supply brown-out took out the quad cap.
    I replaced the quad-cap
    Amp played for 16 hours

    Second failure:
    Discovered the lead from pin 8 of the rectifier was attached but not soldered to the 40uf terminal of the quad cap.
    The 40uf portion of the 525v quad cap had blown.
    Under these conditions, the variac fuse blew when the TDR turned on.
    I had neglected to solder that lead on both ends.

    Success:
    After replacing the quad capacitor and solid state rectifier, and soldering that joint, my VTA-ST120 am is back up and running again.

    Thank you Dan and Bob for your advice that helped me resolve this issue.

    Dave_in_Va, mijohn and 10-E-C like this post

    MarcVBelgium
    MarcVBelgium


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    VTA-ST120: variac fuse blows when the TDR switches on the "power circuits". Empty Re: VTA-ST120: variac fuse blows when the TDR switches on the "power circuits".

    Post by MarcVBelgium Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:51 am

    My ST-120 has been unused since april 2023..... I started it up a few weeks ago and it sounded perfect ....HOWEVER, when I checked the bias, 3 tubes (KT90) had perfect bias of 0,5 VDC....BUT, the right back tube maxed my MM totally out.... even at 10VDC scale....I didn't have the nerve to try the 50 VDC scale.... Where do I start ?
    Bob Latino
    Bob Latino
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    Post by Bob Latino Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:09 am

    MarcVBelgium wrote:My ST-120 has been unused since april 2023..... I started it up a few weeks ago and it sounded perfect ....HOWEVER, when I checked the bias, 3 tubes (KT90) had perfect bias of 0,5 VDC....BUT, the right back tube maxed my MM totally out.... even at 10VDC scale....I didn't have the nerve to try the 50 VDC scale.... Where do I start ?

    Hi Marc,

    Your amp dates from September of 2013. Possibilities of what could be wrong ?

    1. Sometimes after many years the tube socket pins get dirty or "overstretched". Pull the tube out of that one socket and clean the tube pins. Also clean the socket pins and then make sure that the socket pins are not overstretched. Maybe use a very small screwdriver to make the tube socket holes a little smaller. They sell contact cleaner for electronics but alcohol works well also. Put that tube back in and start the amp up again and see if that tube in the socket will now bias properly.

    2. If that doesn't work, try a new tube in that socket ?

    Bob

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    peterh
    peterh


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    VTA-ST120: variac fuse blows when the TDR switches on the "power circuits". Empty Re: VTA-ST120: variac fuse blows when the TDR switches on the "power circuits".

    Post by peterh Fri Dec 22, 2023 12:59 pm

    MarcVBelgium wrote:My ST-120 has been unused since april 2023..... I started it up a few weeks ago and it sounded perfect ....HOWEVER, when I checked the bias, 3 tubes (KT90) had perfect bias of 0,5 VDC....BUT, the right back tube maxed my MM totally out.... even at 10VDC scale....I didn't have the nerve to try the 50 VDC scale.... Where do I start ?

    It sounds like the 10ohm resistor is open. Maybe a flashing tube broke it.

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