VTA ST-120 compared to McIntosh MC-275

Leigh W wrote:Hey all. Has anyone ever compared these two amps side by side for sonic differences? I currently own the st-120 and Roy's SP-14 and the combo works very well. I recently purchased a McIntosh D100 digital preamp which I use as a dac. Wow, my ears woke up when I heard this thing. I'm wondering how the entry level McIntosh stuff (C-220 pre and MC-275) may compare. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Leigh

Leigh W wrote:Hey all. Has anyone ever compared these two amps side by side for sonic differences? I currently own the st-120 and Roy's SP-14 and the combo works very well. I recently purchased a McIntosh D100 digital preamp which I use as a dac. Wow, my ears woke up when I heard this thing. I'm wondering how the entry level McIntosh stuff (C-220 pre and MC-275) may compare. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Leigh

Bob Latino wrote:I have not had the opportunity to hear some of the newer McIntosh gear. Some may not know that McIntosh, since October of 2012, was bought out (100% buyout) by an Italian holding company Fine Sounds SpA. Over the last 4 years the Italian holding company has had the final say on all McIntosh products. Actually, since 1990, McIntosh has been wholly owned by some foreign (outside the USA) company. You can read about how McIntosh was sold in 1990 and resold again in 2003, then resold again 2008 and then again in 2012 at the link below.

McIntosh's foreign ownerships since 1990

Bob

Boomzilla wrote:Hi MarcVBelgium -

I'd contend that the McIntosh name is valuable enough that although owners may change, the brand WILL be in business.  How many times have they already changed hands?  Maybe a dozen?  But their customer service, warranty, and authorized repair centers are unchanged.  

In contrast, what normally happens with "garage brands" is that when the original owner retires or passes away, the equipment owners are left holding the bag.  No warranty, no authorized repair centers, no parts.  Done.  That means that when a component from one of these companies does break (and eventually, they all will) that it's worth whatever a broken component is worth and no more.

A broken McIntosh unit, by comparison, has residual value because parts ARE available via the authorized repair center network.  I can get a brand new glass faceplate, for example for anything Mac has ever made.

This is the ONLY point that I'm making.  I'll not impugn Tubes4HiFi's quality, engineering, or current support network (all of which are exceptional).  I'm only saying that if there's any business continuity plan in the works, I've not heard of it.  

Cheers - Boomzilla

Boomzilla wrote:Kentley says:  "Bob's (and Roy's) designs are not secret fornulae" - so THAT's why there are no schematics!

Kentley says:  "Audiobill comes to mind first. But he's not alone." - and he's just as old as Mr. Latino?

Kentley says:  "Any one of us who's actually built an amp knows more than any Mac owner about his hardware." - True - but the MAJORITY of consumers haven't "actually built an amp."

Kentley says:  "And We Will Survive." - And I say "time will tell..."

PeterCapo says:  "As long the documentation stays with the amp and Mouser and Digi-Key are in business, there shouldn't be a problem" - Unless the owner isn't competent to diagnose (the hard part) or fix (the easy part) their own equipment.

So ultimately, the question is:  "Is Tubes4HiFi a kit company, or are they a finished-component company?"  I'd argue that the majority of stuff sold is probably sold pre-assembled and to consumers who wouldn't know which end of a soldering iron to hold onto.  And for THOSE consumers, having warranty service and authorized repair centers are going to be IMPORTANT.

Although TFHF has those things right now, what confidence can ANY consumer have that those things will be available in five years?  In ten?  The answer, whether you like it or not is simply "none."  

So buy a TFHF product if you can fix it yourself - buy a TFHF product if you plan on keeping it forever - but if you want service, warranty, and resale value - buy a McIntosh.

Now having said all this - I'm going to reiterate again (although I know it'll go in one ear and out the other) that I don't own any Mac gear.  I own TFHF gear because it's a better (much better) value, and because if I need to, I can diagnose & fix it myself.  But I'm NOT the average consumer (nor are you, Kentley & PeterCapo).  And although I'm comfortable with the choices I've made, I wouldn't recommend TFHF gear to "average consumers" who wouldn't be able to fix their own problems in the future.

The older the company (despite ownership changes) the more confident people can be that service will be there when it's needed.  And sooner or later, every audio component WILL need service.

Cheers - Boomzilla