I know we've had this chat before, that vinyl is poised to surpass CD sales in very near future

A race to the bottom?
'Sales of vinyl records have enjoyed constant growth in recent years. At the same time, CD sales are in a nosedive. Last year, the Recording Industry Association of America’s (RIAA) mid-year report suggested that CD sales were declining three times as fast as vinyl sales were growing. In February, the RIAA reported that vinyl sales accounted for more than a third of the revenue coming from physical releases.'


https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/vinyl-cds-revenue-growth-riaa-880959/?fbclid=IwAR1T5etv2RKSb08b8TpU7TpTGIuywL2mzMHeW4d6a-zBeVB6RHUsOMrt60U

Vinyl is considered cool among the earbud generation.  I was strolling a local street fair yesterday with my wife and the community radio station had a fundraising booth with used records and CD's for sale.  Wife asked me if I wanted to go look for records, but being prisoner to a high end system the thought of attempting to listen to the likely scratched, warped and dirty LP's made me chuckle. I wasn't in the mood to look, but majority of the used CD's for sale would likely have sounded just fine on my gold plated audio nerd set up.  Both formats have their advantages and disadvantages IMO.

There were throngs of Millennials browsing and purchasing LP's while exactly no one was looking at the bins of CD's.  No doubt many of the records were destined to go home to meet a Crosley all in one TT or something with a USB plug that streamed to some sort of bluetooth speaker.  All in all a good thing though, as many individuals will eventually realize that better sound can be had and move up the chain.

The resurgence of vinyl continues to amaze me. Trying to think of another technology that has come back from the dead like this. I remember when the last Sams Record Man closed in Canada, figured that was the death knell. Yet today there are multiple stores nearby, sure cant say the same about Kmarts!

You're not the only one noticing this, Shciit finally released their TT:

https://www.schiit.com/products/sol

Looks good, been looking for something in this price range that's new and has those features.

With high-res streaming services available, why purchase physical digital media?  I recently started a subscription to Qobuz, and while their catalog lacks some depth, I can listen to just about anything I want at 44/16 or better for the price of just a few CD's.

I was recently in a millennial-oriented record/gift shop (Zia), and was amazed at how many new/re-release records they had.  Most were $24 each (ouch!).  I laughed when I saw Fleetwood Mac - Rumors on prominent display.  I probably have 3 original copies at home, thrift store finds, all in good shape.  $0.50 ea.

I think what's missing is the hunt.  Thumbing past multiple-multiple copies of Victory at Sea, The King and I, and Whipped Cream to find that golden gem.  That's where the fun is.  Bringing home arm-fulls of records for $20...but you have to work for it.

chad1376 wrote:With high-res streaming services available, why purchase physical digital media?  I recently started a subscription to Qobuz, and while their catalog lacks some depth, I can listen to just about anything I want at 44/16 or better for the price of just a few CD's.

I was recently in a millennial-oriented record/gift shop (Zia), and was amazed at how many new/re-release records they had.  Most were $24 each (ouch!).  I laughed when I saw Fleetwood Mac - Rumors on prominent display.  I probably have 3 original copies at home, thrift store finds, all in good shape.  $0.50 ea.

I think what's missing is the hunt.  Thumbing past multiple-multiple copies of Victory at Sea, The King and I, and Whipped Cream to find that golden gem.  That's where the fun is.  Bringing home arm-fulls of records for $20...but you have to work for it.

Purchasing physical media guarantees futura availability of the music . Streaming may not work tomorrow

peterh wrote: Purchasing physical media guarantees futura availability of the music . Streaming may not work tomorrow  

Well, maybe in some weird post-apocalyptic world, where the internet is no longer available, and computers have been destroyed by a nuclear EMP. In that case, I'm prepared. I have my vinyl, I have my tubes, and a Honda generator. I'll have to fight off hordes of millennial's that are desperate to listen to their records.

peterh wrote:

chad1376 wrote:With high-res streaming services available, why purchase physical digital media?  I recently started a subscription to Qobuz, and while their catalog lacks some depth, I can listen to just about anything I want at 44/16 or better for the price of just a few CD's.

I was recently in a millennial-oriented record/gift shop (Zia), and was amazed at how many new/re-release records they had.  Most were $24 each (ouch!).  I laughed when I saw Fleetwood Mac - Rumors on prominent display.  I probably have 3 original copies at home, thrift store finds, all in good shape.  $0.50 ea.

I think what's missing is the hunt.  Thumbing past multiple-multiple copies of Victory at Sea, The King and I, and Whipped Cream to find that golden gem.  That's where the fun is.  Bringing home arm-fulls of records for $20...but you have to work for it.

Purchasing physical media guarantees futura availability of the music . Streaming may not work tomorrow  

Streaming reminds me of renting an apartment or house, after the lease in up and you move out you are leaving with nothing of value for the money one has spent.

TM

chad1376 wrote:

peterh wrote: Purchasing physical media guarantees futura availability of the music . Streaming may not work tomorrow  

Well, maybe in some weird post-apocalyptic world, where the internet is no longer available, and computers have been destroyed by a nuclear EMP.   In that case, I'm prepared.  I have my vinyl, I have my tubes, and a Honda generator.  I'll have to fight off hordes of millennial's that are desperate to listen to their records.  8)

here is no disaster needed to stop using your streamed records. Only a plain corporate shutdown.
What you have in posession is there. What you lease may not.

It also gives me choice and variety.  I'm not going to purchase a CD for one song that I might listen to once or twice (been there - done that.)  I'm also not likely to purchase a CD for an artist that I'm mildly curious to listen to, not knowing if I will like their music.

I understand the music industry's business model is in peril.  Me purchasing "old fashioned" CDs is not going to fix that.  There is a much larger trend in play.  Blame the move to digital, good 'ol Napster, and subsequent music distribution models starting will iTunes.

I own records - they have cover art that's large enough to see and display, cool liner notes, they have that old-cardboard odor that smells good.  They are worth owning and storing.  CD's have none of that.  They have fragile jewel cases that crack, and cover art that you need a magnifying glass to see.

Not surprised. While CDs are still better quality than most streaming services, they just don't have the same level of ease of use/convenience/portability as streaming. But now that I can get lossless/hi-res on streaming, I can get even better quality recordings than CDs with zero space sacrificed to jewel boxes in my small house. And even with non-hi-res services like Spotify and Pandora, most consumers will just not care about sound quality anyway. Convenience in the end wins.

I recently disposed of over 30 years worth of collected CDs. I've probably put thousands of dollars into this collection in that amount of time. I have no regrets. I didn't even sell them. I just dropped them all off at a Goodwill. They were taking up so much space in my house, and a lot of my old CDs were starting to rot. Most of it is available via streaming, so I still have access to those tracks. I did keep a few rarities on hand, but without a CD or DVD player to play it on inside the house, I guess they're just going to continue collecting dust. This reminds me of my transition away from cassette tape... at one time, the only place I could play a cassette tape was in my car. Same with my CDs now, and that CD player isn't being used unless somehow my cellular connection went down in the car and Spotify couldn't stream... FM radio I may have used once. And now I'm stuck with the same 6 CDs I have forever ensconced in the CD changer cartridge.


Today, the only sources I have at home are vinyl and streaming, granted it's only Spotify and not a hi-res service like Tidal. I love my records, and enjoy the process of flipping through my shelves, pulling off the record sleeves, finding the right track and dropping the needle down. But there's something about the instantaneous access to music that Spotify gets me that cannot be replicated anywhere. The instantaneous access is the killer feature.

And if I want true hifi, I still have my vinyl. I don't care if I don't own my music with streaming. If I really want to own it, I'll download it from somewhere and keep a copy on a hard drive.

One thought I have with new recordings issued on vinyl.  People may buy them with the vague notion they are listening to analog.  I'm sure the majority of music produced since the late '80s is digitally recorded, engineered and mastered.  These records are only analog in the last step - playback.  Even classic re-issues have probably been digitized and re-mastered before being re-released on vinyl.

Certainly, studio digital equipment is processing music at very high resolution, on high quality gear, but it's been through a digital process none-the-less.

Those old original records, pre-digital era, are guaranteed to be analog from the instrument to your ears.

Now, would I be able to tell the difference?  No.

"chad1376 wrote:
With high-res streaming services available, why purchase physical digital media?"

That's great if that works for you.
With the poor internet service I have I would never rely on that to provide music.
Owning physical media is a thing of the past, which is where I exist..
I use the internet to purchase my physical media.

peterh wrote:
There is no disaster needed to stop using your streamed records. Only a plain corporate shutdown.
What you have in posession is there. What you lease may not.

This is already happening with streaming video. A corporate shutdown isn't needed. Shows and movies jump between streaming services every couple years or may disappear. Multiple streaming services popping up and dividing the available content ever thinner unless we pay more. Even digital "purchases" are usually guaranteed to be available for only a few years.

No thanks.

The first record I ever bought was Quarter To Three by U. S. Bonds on a 45 in 1961. I'm still buying tons of records and thanks to my VTA ST70, PH 15 and Sp 14, music still sounds exactly like it's supposed to.
I gotta admit though, I'd love to hear U. S. Bonds an a cheap Made In Japan transistor radio one more time.

Still have a Legrand 45 of Quarter To Three.

If you like to stream your tunes, cool.

I’m reluctant to buy into streaming services. My collection of music on vinyl and CD’s are physical. My LP collection started thanks to the Columbia Record Club where I can get 8 LPs for a penny if I agree to buy them at there regular price for a year. I think I still have my Grand Funk Railroad, Three Dog Night and Steppenwolf albums.
I have come to appreciate quality analog recording and mixing on vinyl. But for the most part I feel that the continual playing of records degrades the quality of the recording to the point where even though the CD format compresses the dynamic range even at the •WAV the sound quality is still better because the hiss and clicks and pops is not there.

I do like listening to vinyl but to me unless the vinyl was pressed from an analog source with no digital alterations there is no point in having the recording on vinyl unless you are trying to impress a hipster.

LeGrace wrote:The resurgence of vinyl continues to amaze me. Trying to think of another technology that has come back from the dead like this. I remember when the last Sams Record Man closed in Canada, figured that was the death knell. Yet today there are multiple stores nearby, sure cant say the same about Kmarts!

I was delighted to discover that my local London Drugs has a vinyl record section. The salesman enjoyed a chuckle at my expense, telling me it had been there for several years and has steadily grown with time.

I grabbed 4 new records, including Bare Naked Ladies'  "Gordon", paid the man and left with a smile.

And if I'd had a million dollars, I'd have bought many more.

I have purchased 550 LPs this year from auctions, estate sells and other places, none of them new, all used.

And then there’s this guy:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/10/magazine/the-brazilian-bus-magnate-whos-buying-up-all-the-worlds-vinyl-records.html

https://thevinylfactory.com/features/inside-the-worlds-biggest-record-collection-an-interview-with-zero-freitas/

vtshopdog wrote:And then there’s this guy:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/10/magazine/the-brazilian-bus-magnate-whos-buying-up-all-the-worlds-vinyl-records.html

https://thevinylfactory.com/features/inside-the-worlds-biggest-record-collection-an-interview-with-zero-freitas/

Little does he know - 582,375 of those 3 million records are Sing-Along-With-Mitch.  28% of those are just the covers, missing the vinyl.

I made the switch to CDs long ago. for me they are just more
convenient and I can rip them to MP3 for portability if desired.

I listen to some streaming but If I like the album (or songs from it)
then I'll buy the CD since I prefer to have the music on physical media.

I tend to listen to the entire CD, including the less popular songs.
I've found in many cases after hearing them a few times I start to like them.

.

Think of streaming as "try before you buy." - go ahead and buy or download albums you like. Don't rip CD's to MP3 - rip them to uncompressed .wav or lossless FLAC. Get a NAS, dump the files on the NAS (big hard drives are cheap.) Network your PC to the NAS, get a good DAC. Play PC files through the DAC. CD's without the CD hassle! RAID 1 for redundancy. Back that up on a drive, and keep it someplace safe for super redundancy. Throw out all those crappy jewel cases and persnickety CDs when your done.

Keep the records.

Or better yet...like when you go bowling. You pay to bowl games but you get to use a house ball for no additional cost because you don’t get to keep the ball when finished bowling. The house balls never fit that good so the bowling experience is not that great unless you aren’t that good or aren’t taking the game seriously.

Hipsters that don’t know better are not too concerned about the condition of the vinyl because they are willing to buy used and abused LP’s because they are enjoying the experience of watching the record spin around and miraculously seeing how music comes out of it...but they aren’t concerned with how bad it sounds sonically because they are accustomed to listening to compressed music through a lo-fi system.

I don't take either side, I had hundreds of vinyl records, then hundreds of CD, but I've never bothered with streaming.
ALL of the music I've ever owned has been saved onto my computer HD in FLAC lossless digital so I can listen to it at any time.
I lost track a few years ago of how many songs and complete albums, but I know for sure it's more than 10000 songs and more than 1000 albums.

tubes4hifi wrote:I don't take either side, I had hundreds of vinyl records, then hundreds of CD, but I've never bothered with streaming.
ALL of the music I've ever owned has been saved onto my computer HD in FLAC lossless digital so I can listen to it at any time.
I lost track a few years ago of how many songs and complete albums, but I know for sure it's more than 10000 songs and more than 1000 albums.

Make sure you have backup ! Or at least a mirror/raid storage