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    Canadian company has acquired the "Dynaco" trade name ?

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    Johnny2Bad

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    Post by Johnny2Bad on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:01 pm

    PeterCapo wrote:

    I must beg to differ.  As an open forum, anyone can share their personal views, even if similar views have already been expressed by others.  Having been around for a while in this and other forums, this seems to me neither uncommon nor inappropriate.

    And, at the risk of issuing another reminder, direct comparison [as you mention] with the Radial Stereo 70 is certainly appropriate because Bob’s, Kevin’s and Frank’s Stereo 70s are also available fully assembled with plenty of support available from them and from experienced attenders of forums, most of which are very happy customers.

    Finally, how can anyone reliably predict what anyone else may wish to purchase, or who might be in the audience?  My observation has been that there are regular attenders here, and in other forums, who are willing to consider adding to their stables.  Over time, it has also become clear enough to me that many others visit forums to look for advice from experience, and those with experience are willing to help.

    Your opinion is noted (obviously).

    I am not clear about what you are referring to in the first paragraph. I don't see where I claimed people should not express their personal views. I did opine that I believed every member here was well aware of the *facts* (Dynaco ST-70 and Dynaco ST-70III being different products from different vendors at different prices) and those facts did not require repeating. Please do continue to post your opinions, but the items I suggested we all are aware of, are facts, not opinions.

    If there is any confusion, let me state it clearly here that expressions of opinion are clearly warranted. My first post was an opinion, and for that I find I'm asked to defend a company I have no interest in defending. All I tried (and failed, apparently) to do was to give the members here the background on Radial Engineering that I am aware of. Looks like doing so touched a nerve.

    My only comment in reference to opinion (complaints about pricing) was that I don't understand why. Feel free to enlighten me on that point. I understand the need to rant, but
    other than that ... Why?

    I am not in possession of a crystal ball, and wouldn't be wasting my time in audio forums if I did own one*, but if there is a single member of this forum who intends to buy a Dynaco ST-70III speak up now. I doubt we will find any takers, but then again, there's that missing crystal ball. That is the audience I suggest isn't likely to hear complaints that amount to, in essence, a protest that a product actually exists.

    I suppose, in a very liberal way, you could argue that direct comparisons to a product that is a re-engineered copy of a classic amplifier sold direct to the consumer versus one that is a new manufactured retail-to-consumer amplifier of different chassis, components, and topology, and one that few people amongst the subjectivists have actually heard (or seen, although the objectivists will complain we're not supposed to look), could be made.

    I would rather not as I don't see how they are similar, let alone the same. Even an unrestored original Dynaco ST-70 is not the same as the product being offered from new parts by independent assemblers, but at least it's close. Perhaps I should complain that I can buy an original ST-70 on eBay for less than the newly minted fully assembled versions from the vendors this forum exists to support, but I still don't see the point of price complaints, regardless of whom is lesser and whom is greater, for products I won't be buying, so I won't.

    But the greater problem is equating the two (ST-70 and ST-70III) in any way in the first place, which I refuse to do. They are two completely different ducks in my opinion. That they are somehow equivalent does not support the " ... Dynaco VTA tube amp kits, all Tubes4hifi.com products and all Dynakitparts.com products ..." as being unique products with unique benefits, it weakens it. So the prices are irrelevant.

    * On the other hand, maybe I would have already made more money than any human can possibly spend, and would be spending my dotage on audio forums for classic tube gear.


    PeterCapo
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    Post by PeterCapo on Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:35 pm

    I suggest it's simpler than all that.  I don’t think it’s so much "complaining" about the price of the Radial St-70.  I perceive the point to be that other versions of the Stereo 70 are a better value (especially the version that each poster is most enthusiastic about).  And this would not be just for value’s sake, but also for sound quality.  That’s what I get from some of the posts.

    In this sense, I don’t think it matters how technically similar or different the Radial St-70 is to any other release of the St-70.  Forget Radial for a moment.  There have been those here who feel Bob’s St-70 is equal to or even better than the vaunted McIntosh MC275 that now sells for, what, something like $7,000?

    But, since Radial apparently presents their amplifier as a "Stereo 70" that is a kind of successor to the original, then comparisons to the other Stereo 70s happen pretty easily and, IMO, understandably.
    DynakitParts
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    Post by DynakitParts on Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:22 am

    May I call you Johnny,
    Apparently Radial Engineering has gotten off to a rough start with the release of their new ST-70 amplifier. It should be no surprise that this amplifier would be compared to the current products mentioned here on this forum. In the absence of actually listening to this amplifier the only comparison one could make would be the sell price. I think we all agree that there is a monumental price difference compared to most all current ST-70 variants and regardless of how this product is marketed including the suggestion that David Hafler guided the designers at Radial Engineering from the grave...In the end...the consumer will decide the success of this product. John...what is your association with Radial Engineering?

    Kevin Devaney

    President

    Dynakit, Inc
    Bob Latino
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    Post by Bob Latino on Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:22 pm

    Yes - it finally happened .. The Radial Engineering Dynaco ST-70X which has been $2999.99 USD is now half that ! > $1499. In post # 30 statement #6 on this thread I predicted that they would start dropping the price when they realized that this amp would not sell at $3000. Personally I thought they would drop the price to $2500 then $2000 first before but IMHO they just want to flush out the units that they had before this amp was discontinued. Having been involved in Dynaco tube gear since the 1960's, I do know one thing > You can't go "upscale" with the Dynaco brand name. Panor tried in the 1990's to sell a new and upgraded Dynaco ST-70 II for about $1000. It did not sell and a bunch of these units were dumped onto the discount market for about $400 at the time. I still wonder how on earth Radial thought they could sell their new ST-70 for $3000. I guess that history repeats itself ? See link below for the now "half price" Dynaco ST-70X.

    The all "new" $1499 USD Dynaco ST-70X (EDIT on 4/13/19 > Now this link does not show a price on the amp because they raised the price back up to $2999.99)

    Bob


    Last edited by Bob Latino on Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:15 am; edited 3 times in total
    LeGrace
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    Post by LeGrace on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:00 pm

    Whenever I see a 50% price drop at a local retailer typically the word “clearance” is attached.
    pedrocols
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    Post by pedrocols on Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:19 am

    LeGrace wrote:Whenever I see a 50% price drop at a local retailer typically the word “clearance” is attached.
    Plus free shipping!
    DynakitParts
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    Post by DynakitParts on Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:38 am

    Where's Johnny now?
                                   Looks as though he has gone silent. Ironically, this amplifier may become a collectible since I assume only a small number were ever produced. I did like the styling and particularly the top cover design. Maybe I will produce a short run of these covers if anyone would be interested?

    Kevin
    Peter W.
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    Post by Peter W. on Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:51 am

    "We also wanted the ST-70 Series 3 to be relatively affordable. As soon as we announced the price, the first reaction from the audiophile community was that it was not expensive enough."

    Uh, OK. Not to pile on, or any such thing, but this is a perfect example of the "only so much" theory.

    There is only so much stuff that one may put in a box that is only so big. And that stuff is going to cost only so much. Add a reasonable profit and a reasonable recovery of development costs, and then one is gouging.

    "At 35 watts a channel, will the ST-70 be loud enough?
    Tubes are much louder than their solid-state counterparts. For comparison, a 50 watt Marshall guitar amplifier can be ear-piercing loud when played at full. The ST-70 actually produces 70 watts RMS and if coupled with a pair of efficient speakers, will deliver sufficient output to replicate the feel of a live concert. You will wake the neighbours!"

    Oh MY!!
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    wildiowa

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    Post by wildiowa on Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:30 am

    In discussing pricing I find the latest fitness rage...Peloton...to be interesting. Apparently they were not selling well in the $1500 range as urban grass eaters and hipsters thought they could not possibly be that good costing so "little." Corporate execs and marketers then implemented a strategy that doubled or tripled the price of literally the same unit and sales exploded. Its weird how people view value. Some new audio stuff is just crazy priced. And Harleys. And hearing aids. My kids have Pelotons in NYC. They will be gathering dust soon, along with other fads in the past...Bowflex? Here on the farm I get out the chainsaw and cut brush or walk beans. The actual cost of components just does not seem to have any bearing on pricing..whatever they can get!
    Bob Latino
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    Post by Bob Latino on Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:27 pm

    Strange that Rutherford Audio in Canada as of today (12/4/18) still has the amp for sale at the original $2999.99 USD list price? See link below ..

    Dynaco ST-70X still selling at list price at Rutherford Audio

    I notice on this web page that there are no customer reviews of the amp? Of course in order to have a customer review, you must first have a customer - lol ..

    Bob
    Peter W.
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    Post by Peter W. on Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:54 pm

    Bob Latino wrote:Strange that Rutherford Audio in Canada as of today (12/4/18) still has the amp for sale at the original $2999.99 USD list price? See link below ..

    Dynaco ST-70X still selling at list price at Rutherford Audio

    I notice on this web page that there are no customer reviews of the amp? Of course in order to have a customer review, you must first have a customer - lol ..

    Bob

    Hope springs eternal....
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    Post by Bob Latino on Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:10 am

    I did have a reply on the VTA amp kits Facebook page about someone who purchased a Radial Engineering Dynaco ST-70X. Apparently the amp lasted for 6 weeks after purchase and then quit working. He Emailed Radial about the problem yesterday - 1/24/19 and has yet to hear from them. See his exact post on the VTA amp Facebook page below.

    "Jules Lefrançois Well, I purchased one at half price, taxes in with free shipping. Lovely sound and looks great. Unfortunately, .....my amp died 6 weeks later: all high bias lights are out. Waiting for Radial eng. to get back to me with regards to service. Hopefully it is something easy to resolve, a fuse maybe?"

    I will post here again after Radial gets back to him.

    Bob
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    Post by Bob Latino on Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:30 pm

    One other thing ...

    This amp was touted to have a "matching Dynaco ST-1 preamp" to go along with the amp ...  See photo below ..

    Canadian company has acquired the "Dynaco" trade name ? - Page 3 Dynaco-ST-1-composite

    This preamp turned out to be "vaporware" and evidently never saw the light of day. At the link below about 1/2 way down the page, they show the Dynaco ST-70X on the left side of the page and there WAS a photo of the Dynaco ST-1 preamplifier on the right side of the page. That right side photo was pulled late last year. My feeling is that the preamp never went into production.

    http://dynaco.com/index#products

    Bob
    cci1492
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    Post by cci1492 on Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:42 pm

    I emailed them about that pre-amp when I was shopping around for one and they never got back to me.
    Peter W.
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    Post by Peter W. on Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:53 pm

    Interesting to note the DIP switches on the pre-amp.

    https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GCEU_enUS821US821&ei=1T1LXNvnDc-ctAWrgL2wCA&q=dynaco+pat-5+bi-fet+manual&oq=dynaco+pat-5+bi-fet+manual&gs_l=psy-ab.3...4246.6475..6797...1.0..0.123.715.6j2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i22i30j33i160.bvokLdY_Q4s

    I am going to guess that the serve about the same function as the information on pages 28 & 28 of the PAT-5 BiFet manual.

    Thoughts?
    sKiZo
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    Post by sKiZo on Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:11 pm

    If having the "BUY IT NOW" button not working is a clue, yall done missed yer chance to pick up on one of the amps ... If that's not enough for ya, it no longer appears in their product listing or online catalog.

    I take this as fairly conclusive proof of the status of the item ...

    Canadian company has acquired the "Dynaco" trade name ? - Page 3 F6c
    tubes4hifi
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    Post by tubes4hifi on Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:59 pm

    here's a better amp at a better price, less the fancy top hat . . .
    VTA ST70 $1275 + shipping WIRED with ALL tubes & EL34 output tubes
    http://tubes4hifi.com/bob.htm#ST70
    jsl1234
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    Post by jsl1234 on Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:08 am

    Link to this weeks TAS review of the new Dynaco ST70

    http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/dynaco-st-70-series-3-tube-power-amplifier/

    Some of his claims and conclusions at the end of the review are outlandish....couldn’t help myself
    jsl1234
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    Post by jsl1234 on Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:18 pm

    I think this product will be a historical footnote soon enough. I only jumped into the fray on TAS because his outlandish claims and false statements about moving the design forward irked my sense of journalistic integrity.
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    ltusler

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    Post by ltusler on Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:54 pm

    Bob Latino
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    Post by Bob Latino on Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:15 am

    Well the Dynaco ST-70X is not selling for $1499 anymore at the link below ..

    Dynaco ST-70X

    I have a feeling that they sold out on all the units that they had and will not be offering these amps anymore. So we have a situation in which they found they could not sell the amps at their original introductory price of $2999.99 and then they could not make a profit on the amp selling it at $1499 (with free shipping also !!) SO - probably the amp will sink into oblivion. I will leave this thread open and check once a month or so. Maybe I am wrong ? Maybe they just temporarily ran out of stock ? We will see ..

    Bob
    jsl1234
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    Post by jsl1234 on Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:08 am

    Bob Latino
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    Post by Bob Latino on Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:04 pm

    Yup ... They are back up to selling the Dynaco ST-70X amp for $2999.99 (with free shipping) at the link that jsl1234 provided. One of the reviews has provided an inside look at the wiring. See photo below. Basically the entire amp is all on one board which is 14.5 inches wide by 5 inches deep. They buy the board with everything attached, install the board and wire up the board to the front and rear connection sites. Yes - maybe the board is wired into the chassis connection sites in Canada but I am pretty sure that the board is of Chinese origin. I don't like the fact that they use those "push-on" connectors. Those connections IMHO should be ALL solder connections. They are using the push on connections to save assembly time. Over time those connections can come loose.

    Bob


    Canadian company has acquired the "Dynaco" trade name ? - Page 3 ST-70-X-wiring
    peterh
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    Post by peterh on Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:48 pm

    I do not think "push connectors" are that bad. They will ( if properly done) have a reliable connection
    and in addition you will avoid bad solders that many seems to have problem with. It also enables
    easy "change" of complete board if, and if all connections are "push connectors". The above
    shows at lest a few soldered wires :-(

    I do however object to mounting power tubes on a circuit board. Heat and physical violence
    associated with insertion and removal of power tubes will affect the tubesockets with lethal
    effects. This won't be better as times goes. No, tube sockets are best mounted separate and
    connected with short wires. ( that includes preamp tubes also, to a lesser extent)

    The above boards looks like it has been soldered by "flow", that implies problems with soldering
    more massive objects, the balance between full solder flow on heave objects and not too much
    heat on the lighter objects is difficult. They might excel in this, but who will take a $2999 chance ?
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    rjpjnk

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    Post by rjpjnk on Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:27 pm

    It is true the tube sockets are soldered to the PC board, but the power tube sockets have a few large metal braces soldered as well to provide additional support. Not as secure as bolting to the chassis of course, but at least it's not just the 8 pins holding them on.

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